lolDnD

Just like lolAlec, but for use of the DnD system.

I have no issues with DnD, but my main concern is how it would be compatible to dice rolls and whatnot. Should there be a compromise between those two?

The transition is seamless, really.

Kain wrote:

The transition is seamless, really.

Then I see no issue with it, if the person who uses said DnD system to RP fighting scenarios or more, then why not?

a reminder for the last. fucking. time.

dnd. goes. here. all dnd rants. alec-related dnd rants. loot related dnd rants. any dnd rant. that shit goes here.

As an avid fan of pen-and-paper RPGs, and having several years of experience within them, I have some opinions on all of this, if anybody cares to read them.

I have been reading alot of forum posts lately, and I'll offer my thoughts on what I know, which is probably not much. I'd like to excuse myself beforehand if I have any factual inaccuracies or if I'm plain stupid while writing this.

If I understand it right, some people have begun using dice rolls to determine the outcome of many things. Kain, you say that it's "seamless", which I think sounds kind of optimistic.

For example, let's say we have a fight between two characters. Ying and Yang. Ying is angry at Yang for some reason, and decides he wants to hit him across the face. Ying does an emote;

"Ying lashes his hand out in an attempt to smack Yang right in the jaw."
Now, it's Yang's turn to respond, as per normal rules. Well, Yang is using dungeons and dragons rules, so he rolls 1d20.
Now here's where the problem comes in.

In regular pen and paper, the gamemaster decides a "DC", which is a Difficulty Modifier. This is the number you have to roll more than in order to be successful. But in Aeria, there are no DMs. Should an admin have to preside over every fight to determine a DC for every single roll anyone does?
But let's assume Yang is a sensible fellow, and just uses his common sense and courtesy to determine the modifier. (Once again a problem arises, as someone could easily set a DC and not announce it and should they miss it by a factor of 1 or 2, they say can still claim success.)

Let's take another example.

Ying has never even touched a hammer, and has no idea what an anvil even is, but uses DnD rules.
Ying wants to create a longsword for himself, so he goes into the smithy and rolls a d20.

Now let's say he manages a natural 20. A critical success (critical hit). Should he be allowed to craft a masterfully crafted longsword without any previous experience?
But again, this can be resolved with some common sense and courtesy, but it still presents an opportunity for 'cheating', so to speak.


The final problem, which is pretty much the biggest one I can see, is the imbalance.

Basically, the only reason why levelling and rolling works in Dungeons and Dragons, GURPS, Mutants and Masterminds, and all other PnPs is something called scaling.

A level 1 band of adventurers won't be fighting entire armies off and throwing trains around.
A level 1 adventurer will be dealing with small things, like kobolds and goblins. Bandits and thugs. That sort of thing.

But the same band of adventurers won't be fighting goblins and kobolds forever. By the time they hit level 20 and start getting epic levels, they'll be dealing with archdemons invading the mortal plane, assassinating heavily-guarded evil tyrants, and fighting dragons in the clouds.

Why is this? To keep it balanced. A level 1 adventurer doesn't have the health, damage, or skill modifiers to manage things like the level 20+ epic adventurer will. And by level 20, let me tell you, Dungeons and Dragons gets very unrealistic.
A good example of this is a session of mine which I had with some close friends. After a long time playing, we were all level 30 and had several epic levels. One of my friends was an epic-level wizard, and the other an epic-level barbarian.

The arch-demon from the setting's hell was laying siege to a town, and we were just confronting him. My wizard friend cast spell upon spell on my barbarian friend, and thusly enlarged him and gave him countless buffs to attack rolls and stats.
The barbarian, now about 95 feet tall, almost just as tall as the biggest baddest demon in the world, then went into rage. It ended with the barbarian ramming the demon's head straight through a castle tower, and then began punching it square in the forehead until its cave skulled in.

All of this happened within the span of 11 turns. Every turn is 6 seconds long. That's 66 seconds. One minute and six seconds.

This could be extremely problematic, especially to newer players like myself, as well as those who wouldn't want to use dungeons and dragons rules. They would all be extremely low-leveled compared to the already established characters.
And the world either has to scale to the higher-leveled characters, or to the low-leveled characters. Either way it goes, it makes either the higher levels very powerful, or the lower levels very powerless.


To make a VERY long story short, I don't think rules taken directly from dungeons and dragons would work in Aeria roleplay.
It would cause new players a great disadvantage, and unless all admins are permanently labeled as "dungeon masters", and learn all the rules from the DnD sourcebooks, it would be very hard to keep track off and administrate.

I believe this man has a point. It's already a little silly, I feel, if Alec and friends find a constant supply of hydras, ogres, trolls and other things to kill for great profit on a daily basis.

Markka wrote:

I believe this man has a point. It's already a little silly, I feel, if Alec and friends find a constant supply of hydras, ogres, trolls and other things to kill for great profit on a daily basis.

I always found that worrying.

I found myself wondering how to increase my own level to keep up, before slapping myself and realising how much that isn't the point of the RP.

I don't have much to say on this topic, but as I keep having to remind people who complain about DnD: it's not being forced on anyone. No, Ying is never going to be powergamed by Yang, because if Ying refuses to use DnD rules, Yang can't either. Forcing Yang to calculate his skill level and do rolls would be entirely unreasonable and you would be fully justified in complaining if that were the case. I'm also fairly certain Ying could never craft a masterful longsword with no prior experience, because you need to spend skill points in DnD to be able to craft a longsword in the first place, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't have a response to the rest of your points, Horizon - I admit, I do worry how the scaling would work in Olden, or if it would even work at all. It seems like it could get preposterous pretty easily. And like Krug said, advancing in level is not really the point of RP. It's nice to have skills and be badass, but when you're beating an Arch-Demon's skull in as a 95-foot barbarian, that doesn't really make for good storytelling. That's just something done for lulz in a tabletop rpg.

I agree with Munroe's point. As long as I don't have to use DnD's system most of the time, I'm perfectly fine with it. But the leveling and scaling in Olden is the major issue.

Meh, I gave DnD a shot a few times, although I still can't seem to enjoy it very much. I usually get stuck waiting for 30 minutes or so of planning and 2-3 hours for the actual fight (I'm not exaggerating either). It seems useless to me to bind players to stats instead of roleplay. When Eva fought Vorn, we just used dice on occasion and high roller won the attack/defense. Aside from that, I just feel like constricting players to a huge DnD system isn't the greatest. Stats and such to make players SLIGHTLY better than others at certain skills could be done but are still annoying to go about usually.

Anyway, I do say DnD turns olden into more of a poor mmo instead of roleplay, because the battles aren't really much roleplay, since it's very slow turn-based moves. That and it encourages people (that like this) to want to fight all the time and level their character up into OP-ness. It's just unfair how your character is instantly bad and anybody you're up against is most likely OP.

Quote :

it's not being forced on anyone. No, Ying is never going to be powergamed by Yang, because if Ying refuses to use DnD rules, Yang can't either. Forcing Yang to calculate his skill level and do rolls would be entirely unreasonable and you would be fully justified in complaining if that were the case.

I have to apologize, I was just assuming due to complaints that it was being forced on people. If it isn't, then I don't see any harm in doing it.

Dungeons and Dragons does not work in a system where we are not using Dungeons and Dragons.

Here is your problem, Dungeons and Dragons as a game is NOT BALANCED WHAT SO EVER. The game is not made to be balanced, ok? It's not supposed to be balanced. And this is where our problem lies. D&D works because there is a Dungeon Master regulating what you earn at all times. You're the one running this campaign between the Monster Hunters and there is no third party to regulate how you advance. It just does not work, seriously. Let me show you this, shown to me by Omap to prove my point -- Behold, Pun-Pun. Pun-Pun breaks no rules in D&D and runs purely off the rules, yet he can cast every ability and is the strongest creature in existence? Why? Because no dungeon master is tellign the player that what he is doing is wrong and against the game in which the DM is trying to promote. This is the problem, Kain. Nobody is stopping you from utilizing these insane powers you /can/ get in D&D because you can fucking do anything in D&D.

Turning invisible with something as simple as 'Alec Smith turns invisible' - which has happened, is so beyond outrageous. What would you do if a new player came in and applied for such an ability? I'll tell you what you and this community would do, you would lash out at him, criticize him and his character, and downright neglect him. This D&D system is essentially exploiting the rules and is in every sense of the word, CHEATING.

This is Olden ROLEPLAY. D&D is not a ROLEPLAY, while ROLEPLAY does happen in D&D. It is a GAME. Not a ROLEPLAY. And this is where you seem to not understand. You can't use D&D rules in a system that is not based on D&D.

While I have no power in this community, I'm sure most of the playerbase can agree that this D&D nonsense is only confusing new and veteran players, it's causing problems, and it's only making you, and the rest of the monster hunters exceptionally strong.

Let me give you another example. When Arkhauser took on Alec, went to bruise him up a little after he turned into a werewolf- you instantly turned me to a crisp and there was nothing I could do. Werewolves are meant to be some of the more feared creatures in the woodland area. Hell, there was a ward around Surna just to protect the town against such dark beasts, yet when I confronted you.. You didn't even flinch, you had no problem setting me ablaze and getting it over with. Nobody can contend with Alec, and the Monster Hunters less so. Not to mention your party is gaining loot and items that would otherwise require applications. Your entire party has magical gear and the like, with no explanation for how you acquired them. I went one of your trips, I managed to nab a wondrous artifact that could shoot 50MPH gusts of wind whenever I pleased. It's not working, and it's not going to work in this community, I'm sorry.

TL;DR
This is not a D&D Community. D&D does not work, please use the system in place like everyone is supposed too. What is going on here is against the rules.

And you have quite the audacity to tell members of the community to shut their mouths unless they obey YOUR system. Now that, is the move of one serious cunt.

Just a word, never even say ''you are not forced to RP DnD''. Whenever your character comes in contact with another, they are being pushed in a way to recognize things that your characters have accomplished or obtained. The only way your characters have achieved such strength, accomplishments, and items is through a very rigid and terribly adapted system. So whenever another character fights yours without even having to use DnD, indirectly they are still forced to, because everything you've obtained still came from that system (weapons, skills, powers, armor, ect.)

A word on adaptation. Nothing can be adjusted perfectly in every way to fit another theme. Trying to pull DnD and put it in RP has demand for adjustments, and those adjustments causes complications with other players and the current system. I still question why you even incorporate DnD into RP. If you want to play DnD, go play that game. Why would you even think about putting it into RP? That just causes problems and creates more work on your end.

Reager wrote:

Just a word, never even say ''you are not forced to RP DnD''. Whenever your character comes in contact with another, they are being pushed in a way to recognize things that your characters have accomplished or obtained. The only way your characters have achieved such strength, accomplishments, and items is through a very rigid and terribly adapted system. So whenever another character fights yours without even having to use DnD, indirectly they are still forced to, because everything you've obtained still came from that system (weapons, skills, powers, armor, ect.)

A word on adaptation. Nothing can be adjusted perfectly in every way to fit another theme. Trying to pull DnD and put it in RP has demand for adjustments, and those adjustments causes complications with other players and the current system. I still question why you even incorporate DnD into RP. If you want to play DnD, go play that game. Why would you even think about putting it into RP? That just causes problems and creates more work on your end.

Well said, Reager. I hadn't considered any of that. Well, besides the adaptation bit. Olden's lore (monsters, magic, etc.) does not, and is not supposed to, fall into DnD's distinct categories. It has its own sets of abilities, statistics, and monsters, and trying to translate the volume of Olden's lore into tabletop format is like writing a whole new manual on it. Kain's given it a good effort, but the fact is, unless it was officially decreed that Olden was a DnD RP, it can't, and shouldn't, be done.

I'd like to point out, here and now. Before this gets out of hand, I have nothing against Kain. I still consider Kain an exceptional RP'er but I feel what he is trying to accomplish here is doing more harm then good. While my actions (me posting that bit of text all over) may have come of as rude or otherwise dickish, it was. But I do what I have to do to make a point.

No hard feelings, Kain. But a few things tick me off, something like this happens to be one of them. I respect you for trying to color olden with some new RP, but it's not doing us much good at all.

I didn't tell anyone to shut their mouths unless they obey dnd. I told them to stop talking without any basis of what they're saying. I can take the complaints of people who understand and are affected seriously. I can't listen to someone saying something off the top of their head with no understanding of context or mechanics, because I have spent a good deal of time trying to explain the same concepts repeatedly and the complaints I get come with faux examples.

For instance, Krug's example was an exaggeration, one I believe henmay have misheard and took out of context. Or he's just pulling it out of his ass.

As for people regulating the hunts, there are, actually. Whenever we go on a hunt, if the reward is not excessive or involves magic items, such as a hunt in which we fight a creature where profit is made by selling it's chitin and natural venom. The creature isn't going to provide a ton of money when it gets split down between people. Something like that, I leave a log and if it provides more than usual, a message. For something that could end in large profits and provide magic items (but specifically, unique items like your fan), whoever takes the item has to apply for it. If we choose not to take item, it's sold and becomes money split between everyone. As for magic arms and armor, anything with a bonus of 3 or higher is app-worthy.

So I have been making an effort to regulate what we do.

As for DnD being unbalanced, I disagree. The core things are pretty balanced as long as no one makes or uses dumb exploits. Choosing which skills you want helps prevent someone from automatically being able to do a or b task and likewise makes it clear what IS in their reach. Most characters are balanced. While the intent of mine was to provide a unique play style and maintain balance, my attempts at nerfing have not worked out, so I'll be reclassing him, etc. He will probably be less magic reliant.

As for my emote of suddenly turning invisible, Alec did it discreetly since it was plain as day that the Hawkes were going to try and capture him and he wasn't about to give away his ace. Since discreet casting appears to be unpopular with you folks, I've taken care to be more thorough in making all my actions obvious to everyone.

A word to Reager: DnD works perfectly with Olden's system of combat. There is little to no adaptation required, everything fits perfectly fine. I've looked into various aspects when trying to determine if something doesn't make sense with olden. The only things that were barred are specific sections of magic (demonic and dark magic mostly). I can even make a build if Abdul without much trouble. At most, Olden possessed some unique branches of magic that would need to be integrated, but that's it.

As for other people getting forced to deal with someone who's experienced and equipped due to DnD, its not all that different from a person experienced from DnD encounters dealing with someone who is experienced because their profile says so, or they app'd for it, etc.

As a finale note to Zaku: I am not annoyed at anyone with legitimate concerns. I'm only annoyed at anyone voicing concerns out of ignorance. I am taking yours seriously, Zaku.

Also you should link this thread in lolAlec's thread, possibly reduce any further comments made in that thread about DnD. Would make it much easier.

From what I've seen, the DnD rules and such have allowed the Monster Hunters to advance much more quickly than other characters.

It's not a very detailed side-note but atleast I'm bothering to contribute.

I have a suggestion. Scale up the dnd experience requirements and scale down the loot rewards by a factor of 3. If we did that, the rate of progression would go down a lot, and I realize I'm biting myself in the ass by doing this, along with anyone else that joined me, but the way things are going, the only choices are, remove dnd entirely, or adjust the scale heavily.

Kain wrote:

I have a suggestion. Scale up the dnd experience requirements and scale down the loot rewards by a factor of 3. If we did that, the rate of progression would go down a lot, and I realize I'm biting myself in the ass by doing this, along with anyone else that joined me, but the way things are going, the only choices are, remove dnd entirely, or adjust the scale heavily.

If I may make a suggestion, the rules should be appended with something to the likes of "Using dice-rolling and stats is entirely optional, and if any one party in a roleplay situation doesn't wish for it to be used then all parties present have to abide by this."


Although I bet you could phrase it much better than me. I'm not big on words.

Kain, I honestly think you are a great roleplayer, and I love being around you when you roleplay. You have always been good at it, but DnD just takes away now. You base a section of your RP entirely on dice now, no longer just going with the flow and being relaxed, but making RP a fast-paced dice rolling game for yourself. DnD has its place and RP has its place, and I personally feel it can cause conflicts with surrounding players, but it's worse for yourself. Now you rely on luck and numbers to do all the roleplay for you, stripping you of the option to just choose what happens and enjoy it. Of course passive is no different, but it still changes a part of your RPing career for youself.

I'm gonna leave it at this: take a chunk of your roleplay and turn it into a game, or just chill and have fun. This is my personal opinion, I still dislike DnD and feel it's imbalanced, but it seems like you have an infinite pocket of excuses for every complaint and I'm just not gonna bother. Just keep in mind that RP is slow and relaxed, and it's a different story when it comes to DnD.

I don't bring DnD mechanics into actual roleplay. I just do it as a fun minigame with Kain.