Just Another Rant

Before I begin, please read up on my other rants, quickly:
Zaku's Envisionment | The Next 'Olden'
Injustice, Provocation, and Rule 9
Oh, and a nice one by Press:
"Why no Population?"

[ I. Server Inactivity ]
Server inactivity is one of our biggest problems as of late, lets be honest here. The server is basically empty twenty-four seven. And the few people that go on, if I may list names: Me, Press, Munroe, Psyche, Gambit, and Phear, on Occasion. Are the only.. seven, seven people that are on the server lately. This is sad, Olden. Very, very sad. Lets look at how many community members we have, active ones that is. I can count about.. 15 or so, roughly. Including those already said. Yet, Olden, as a community has the audacity to complain about server inactivity, the only way to fix this problem, is to get on the server yourself.

Now, from what I've been observing, the biggest problem is a mixture of Steam-Friends Role play, and what I like to call 'Private-Role play Chronicles'. From how I see it, people would rather role play privately for a few reasons:
A) So that their role play isn't interrupted
B) Hated of Other players, they'd rather form close knit clusters of friends, instead of role playing with the community as a whole.
C) To bypass rules on server, things like: Cybering, Private Role-play in itself, and undisturbed freedom. Some of which might be breaking lore barriers, but it wouldn't matter-- for it's private.

See where I'm getting at? You people need to start bringing your role play on-server, bringing it forward for others to enjoy, instead of hording it to yourself, and your closest buddy.

Which irritates me the most, is that you, the community have the audacity to complain about inactivity, let me restate:

Quote :

The only way to fix this problem, is to get on the server yourself.

So with a final note, if I may be blunt: "Get off your fucking asses, and stop complaining."

[ II. Lose of Members - Recruitment of Members ]

Now, lets just.. have a quick look at some other threads:
Drakeson's Leaving
Crimzon's Temporary Leave

Alright, members are dropping like flies lately, they either:
A) Dislike the way the community turned out, posted a rant or two, and disappeared.
B) Disappeared without a word, and moved onto bigger, and better things.
C) Left for another community, or are totally inactive
D) They've gone inactive for real life problems, computer issues, and the like.

Despite why people have been leaving, they've left. It really doesn't matter. We're a small community, I believe Olden has always been on the smaller side of the scale. But, it's about time we change that. We have to gain new members, we have to become more hospitable, and stop being elitists. Stop your private-role play, lets others enjoy the server, too. Stop being elitists, don't hate those that haven't been here as long as you have, stop trying to show off your fancy sword you applied for, leaving the new frail member in the dust as you obliterate him for the sake of slapping him in the face, because you think you're better then him. Be NICE to people, is it all that hard to ask?

Be hospitable, and recruit people. Tell your friends about Olden, share the fun, bring others in. Hell, maybe we should get a tag going. Show your proud to be apart of Olden, as hard as they might be. Have others take interest in your community, for us to thrive we need new blood. We need new members, more input, and all round better, and more tasteful role play.

So, get a tag going, and bring in others from wherever you can. We need new members.

[ III. Admins ]

Before we begin, lets take a look at the admin-roster. An un-updated out of par roster. Which is sad in itself. I'll throw in my own little edits.

Quote :

Head Administrators:
Pat [In-Active ; On Temporary Leave]
Rutabega
TrulyJust
What this rank does:

Code:

-Administrates the server, and the community.
-Makes decisions together about changes and updates.
-Leads the basic administrators and moderators.
-Can take complaints and suggestions.
-Accept applications.
-Has the ability to do anything the below ranks can.

Basic Administrators:
Hyperiant
Narran [Removed from the Roster]
Phear
Geowulf [In-Active]
With the Addition of:
Mack
Psyche
Zaku [Trial Period]
What this rank does:

Code:

-Administrates the server.
-Can take complaints and suggestions.
-Enforce when needed.
-Accept applications.
-Can run events, and set up quests and stashes.
-Discuss with each-other about problems on the server.
-Has the ability to do anything the below ranks can.

So, before I start picking on individuals, this is what needs to be done:

Admins need to be more hospitable, less egotistical, and kinder to players. They need to take suggestions, and when player arise and complain, they need to learn to act without banning the player. Yes, I'm talking to some of you specifically.

Now, lets start from the top.

-Pat-
Pat, you're a good admin, one of the best. But, with you inactive, on-server, and with the community in-general, we're at a huge loss. All I can say is, we need you back, we need someone up on the chain of command that can do their job properly, and knows what needs to be done. That someone is you.

-Rutabega-
Oh, where do I begin. Alright, first, you need to be kinder to players, you need to take suggestions, and you need to stop being.. egotistical, if I may put it bluntly. The world infact does not revolve around you, nor does the role play. Should you feel your being used, and or pushed aside, take action, but do it civilized. Learn your place, you're an admin not god, not a dictator, not the leader. Do your job, enforce the rules, and don't push people aside when they bring up suggestion, or complaint. If you can't handle this, step down. Because honestly, I can't say you're the best for the head admin position.

-Tru-
You need to get active, you need to start becoming more aggressive, and assertive. Unlike the rest of the admins, you're TOO nice, too kind, and too personal about things. You need to learn your place, you've got power, use it, but don't overdo it, enforce the rules when they need to be. And bring the hammer down should the time come. Never let personal issues get in your way, if you can't help that-- maybe you too aren't Head Admin material.

-Hyper-
You too need to become more active, you need to get on-server. I know you enforce the rules, you do it very well. But you need to ease up on the private-role play. Yes, it's nice, and I know I'm apart of a lot of it, but we need to spread the fun around. I'll be discussing Private Role play further in my rant, besides that. You're an overall good admin when you're active.

-Phear-
Phear, there's not much I can say, much like hyper, you do enforce the rules, and you are pretty active. You're an overall good admin, but you do take some things personally, a lot of times, actually.

-Mack-
Honestly, if you hadn't been around when he needed you, I think Olden would've crumbled. But you've stuck together with us, and tried your best to enforce the rules until you snapped. Instead of ranting about you, let me twist this topic for a second:

Olden, you need to learn some respect, you need to learn who are, and who aren't your superiors, and you've got to respect them for that. Be glad they're there to do what they do. And treat them no differently then you would your friend. Learn your place, but don't be afraid to speak against them, voice your opinion. If you want change, you make change.

-Psyche-
Much like Mack, you stepped up to the plate to do what needed to be done. Though, you fool around a little, you're a tasteful admin. You enforce the rules when the time comes, and aren't afraid to do so. And, I think we can say safely the entire community appreciates it. There's not much I can rant about on either of you.

-Zaku-
Now, though I can't really give my opinion on myself. I like to think I enforce the rules when the time comes. I have a bad temper, I know this. I get frustrated with players, and hold grudges against my fellow admin. I hate certain aspects of Olden, and I'm not afraid to tell people. And hell, I'm rude, and selfish at times, and can be a jackass. But I like to think I try.

Now, onto the rules, which the admins are to be enforcing.

[ IV. The Rules ]

First off, lets look at each rule individually, starting from the top.

1. Have Common Sense. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. It's always better to keep things to yourself if they don't seem like a good idea to publicize. If you do not want to do something, state. If you can't do something, state. Give yourself limits.

There's not much I can say about the first rule, except-- people need to follow it. Yes, it's good to voice your opinion, but try to stay away from flaming, and otherwise immature ways of doing so. I, of course do this, a big flaw of mine. But, as a community if we abide by this we should bring Olden one step closer to being a more kind, and hospitable environment for all to enjoy.

2. Be cool to others--especially your superiors. You are entitled to your own opinions and ideas, but remember, so does everyone else. If someone is not treating you the way you would like to be treated, please talk to an administrator as soon as possible.

This rule, much like the first is nearly flawless, but there's one little thing that really irritates me:
"especially your superiors"
This, your superiors aren't all that higher then you, yes, they have the power required to enforce rules, but you shouldn't treat them any nicer then you do your fellow member. This is what causes grudges between members, and even admins. When they begin to see people 'ass-kissing' there fellow admin, and when you feed an ego, it's only going to grow until it whips around to bite you in the ass.

3. Be mature as you can be at all times. There are times for messing around, and times to be serious. If another person is not following this rule DO NOT follow along with it as it causes it to become even larger and worse than before. Appreciate that you're here, but don't abuse the privilege of staying.

There's nothing I can say here, except you need to follow this. Don't join rage-parties, and don't bring more fire into fights. It's not needed, nor worth it.

4. OOC Chat should not be spammed. If there's a delay to the OOC chat, don't complain about it--it's there for a reason. Please remember that people are here to roleplay and this is a roleplay server, not a chat room. Take discussions, debates, and idiocy to Steam Friends.

Now this, is a terrible, terrible rule. Olden. First off, you should be allowed to use OOC chat when, and when you feel like it. Should you feel it's disturbing your roleplay, turn it off. The filter is there for a reason, use it. And stop complaining when people talk. We're here to have fun, not to be oppressed.

5. No-one can take your freedom of choice from you without consent. The same goes for everyone else, and you. You and your characters have a right to be alive. If someone is bothering you to do something to your character(s) that you do not want to do, you are not entitled to do them. Think about what you ask of others before asking.

Now this, I'll take into further detail later. But this is a very bad rule. For people abuse the fact that they chose when and when their characters aren't hurt, or killed. People abuse this fact. A sad truth.

6. No religious discussions on the server or the forums unless it is IN CHARACTER. We do not care if you worship God. We do not care if you believe in the Devil. Take it OUTSIDE of Olden's forums and server. Be respectful of what you say about others religions and beliefs as well.

This is just stupid. Alright, if people are so insulted by someone bringing religion into something, they need to grow up. Seriously. Should you feel it necessary to defend your religion if someone is making fun of it, do so. Either way, you should be allowed to speak about what you want.

7. If you're not mature or responsible enough to handle any kind of roleplay, don't do it. If you are going to fool around about someone doing a certain roleplay, then you are not following this rule. If you cannot responsibly roleplay on our server, then you will be punished appropriately. Do not abuse your rights to roleplay.

If you don't find a role play acceptable, take it up with an admin, though everyone has the right to role play what they wish. Don't take it personally, and ignore it if it bothers you so much-- things like cybering, and the like.

8. Explicit Sex Talk AND roleplay is not allowed on the server OR the forums. Things like Kissing, simple IC nudity, and mild, "tasteful" sexual topics do not count. This means: No nude pictures, explicit content or conversations, or suggestive material are allowed. Take it to Steam Friends ONLY. Pregnancy / Children / Minor IC mention is all okay. Do not tell anyone about your sensual encounters / experiences in OldenRP!

I agree with the restrictions on explicit content on server, ICly. That is. But should someone find it necessary to share a sexual-orientated joke, I do believe they have the right. If not, enforce the rule. Because nobody does as it is.

9. We let you do what you want. But, if it is in the wrong time and place, Expect consequences. Remember rule 1, have common sense about everything you do. We want you to have a fun and safe experience, but we want you to also be responsible.

Now this rule, contradicts completely with Rule 5. If you're put into a dangerous situation, it's your own fault. You should've taken a different approach. And with that, you shouldn't be able to 'pussy' out of things, and pull out the Rule-Card, blabbing on about how you can't be hurt without your consent. Because this only causes hatred, and more Drama then we need.

10. In Character private roleplay (talking and the like) can and -may- be altered (interrupted, mocked, spoiled, etc.) In-characterly by any other characters on the server. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COUNTER THIS OOCLY. (And vice versa.) Just like in real life, people can barge into your house and interrupt you--your house is not an isolated world. If you wish to roleplay privately without this possibility, take it to SFRP.
Oh, and this is not an excuse for people to randomly barge into any attempt for conversation--Rule 1, people.

I'll be taking this into another topic, later on.

11. No racial comments, actions, or cultural segregation on the forums or server unless it is IN CHARACTER. Do not insult blacks or whites for their color, because it doesn't matter what they look like here, it matters how they act.

Like I said about religion, if you can't handle racism, and the like, you need to grow up. If somone's insulting you for the color of your skin, or what the fuck you eat on a daily basis, let them. You should know you're the bigger man, or woman in the conversation, and let them act like children, and throw immature insults at you.

12. Do not use full names that have already been used, nor any mockeries or parodies of these names, (including company names, celebrity names, vehicle names, or building names) For example, 'Ford Ford' or 'Gordon Frohman'.

Rule 1, enough said.

13. Idiotic responses are to be kept to a minimum within serious threads. There is a thing called excessiveness, people. Use common sense on when to be serious and not. Punishment is from a warning, to a day ban, to a week.

Again, rule 1. Enough said.

[ V. Private Role play ]

Quote :

10. In Character private roleplay (talking and the like) can and -may- be altered (interrupted, mocked, spoiled, etc.) In-characterly by any other characters on the server. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COUNTER THIS OOCLY. (And vice versa.) Just like in real life, people can barge into your house and interrupt you--your house is not an isolated world. If you wish to roleplay privately without this possibility, take it to SFRP.
Oh, and this is not an excuse for people to randomly barge into any attempt for conversation--Rule 1, people.

I'll be taking this into another topic, later on.

Like I said earlier, Private Roleplay is killing Olden. Instead of roleplaying with everyone, you're all forming tight knit clusters of friends. I can name a few off the top of my head, but I won't point fingers.

Spread the fun around, if you want everyone to be happy, roleplay with everyone. And stop being so afraid for your characters. I know they're important to you, but take risks. That's what makes roleplay fun.

Now lets look at the rule.

Quote :

people can barge into your house and interrupt you--your house is not an isolated world.

This is clever. This little sentence was to put in to make PRP justifiable. But it's not.

First off, you tell me, two people are chatting in the back-rooms of the tavern, you're the only one on the server, you want RP too. But they locked the door. You're ambitious, so you kick the door in, because that's all you can do. Much like the rule says. They get pissy, whip around and try to kill you for disturbing their romantic gathering. And you're still without role play, all alone, while they have their own little fun. Their actions are OK. Because the rule says so.

That's RETARDED. First off, why does he NEED to kick the door in, to get role play. Because I've seen this more then once, stop PRPing if you keep it up, we might as well tear Olden down, so everyone can continue their own little role plays and SF, and use the server for something useful.

[RESERVED]

Next post better not be "I agree."

Some very interesting points were brought forth, though.

Wow, you've opened my eyes Zaku, you really have. But one thing for the SFRP points, some people do it because they can't or don't have the time to load up Garry's mod.

Rossii wrote:

Wow, you've opened my eyes Zaku, you really have. But one thing for the SFRP points, some people do it because they can't or don't have the time to load up Garry's mod.

That's the worst excuse I've ever, ever heard. If that's your excuse, honestly. Just.. leave. >.>

No it's not, not all of us have super-computers, my computer is quite slow when it comes to just getting Garry's mod up.

Then, maybe a garrysmod roleplay community isn't for you?...

It's still a terrible excuse, and it shouldn't stop you from taking to initiative to actually try.

It takes me 5-10 minutes to join the server, and that's if gmod DOESN'T fuck up and force me to restart it, which isn't a rare occurance, just suck it up. Tell it to join game in progress then just get up and watch a few minutes of tv, come back and game should be loaded, that's how it works for me.

I am frankly shocked and disgusted, sir. Shocked and disgusted.

Interesting points, and I fully agree with the inactivity thing.

I only read the part about PRP.

I honestly can't say if I'm a suspect (although I'm sure I'm a victim of it) because I seriously can't remember any
time that I actually did it.

Hell, even if the door -isn't- locked, somebody opens the door pokes their head in, and everyone threatens to kill
or arrest them. The only acception to this is when somebody pulls the person into an RP where someone's being
robbed or something. Which I have no problem with, even if the person being pulled in had no proper warning
of what was going on.

It could even be out in the open, where -everyone- can walk around freely. It's either

***character 1 pulls out a gun and points it at the guy who wants to join in

or

***Rabid character 2 snarls at the person who wants to join in, scaring him/her off

Who the hell cares (besides the people doing it) what excuse people have to scare others off from RP?
Even if it's SF cybering, that's no gods damned excuse to scare someone off. They should just stop right
there, get the fuck off eachother ICly, and begin Passiving.

Who else agrees with any points I made?

I totally agree with the PRP thing. I can name two instances in when I was isolated from any RP, and tried to get involved. The first time, the door was unlocked, and I walked in to chase out a trespasser. After I did so, however, the house's inhabitants drew swords and threatened to kill me. You're welcome. The second time, the door was locked, but my character heard screaming (this was in fact, some sort of bizarre cybering session) and kicked the door open. I walk in, and almost get cut down by several people with swords. Again. And none of my characters would have any motive to randomly kick open a locked door, even my evil ones. It's just stupid.

Whenever I get annoyed and say "PRP", I get shot down by a bunch of people in Global, saying, "It's not PRP because you can walk in." Yeah, walk in, and get PKed.

Then of course there's magic barriers that are ICly impenetrable, or people who just go to SF so they can have uninterrupted PRP. Why even have a server / community if everyone just goes to SF with a few friends to get their fix? You don't belong here if that's all you want to do.

As for PKs, don't even get me started. There are some people who just use zero common sense when Role-Playing, or take total advantage of rule 5. I've lost countless fights to people who refuse to let their character get injured at all, while I'm sitting there letting my (more powerful) character take hits. Every fight seems to turn into a huge OOC argument as both sides accuse the other of powerplay (and in many cases they're right) and each side refuses to take any injuries. I've also seen players who go around acting like total dicks ICly to everyone, and whine endlessly in LOOC when they piss off some really powerful character and get their ass kicked (IE: Joseph Blacke).

Quote :

There are some people who just use zero common sense when Role-Playing, or take total advantage of rule 5. I've lost countless fights to people who refuse to let their character get injured at all, while I'm sitting there letting my (more powerful) character take hits. Every fight seems to turn into a huge OOC argument as both sides accuse the other of powerplay (and in many cases they're right) and each side refuses to take any injuries. I've also seen players who go around acting like total dicks ICly to everyone, and whine endlessly in LOOC when they piss off some really powerful character and get their ass kicked (IE: Joseph Blacke).

This.

Fucking.
This.

Marcus could rip probably every character around. Does he ever? No. Yet people still tend to take him as some sort of pussy that's got the strength of a fucking dead badger.
I -HATE- fights for these reasons. With ALL my characters. Someone's going to call powergame. And abuse the consent rule. It's just ridiculous and annoying. Throws me off greatly, I can tell you. I will often just disregard my character's personality completely just to stay the fuck away from fights.

You gotta love how people can do Neo-style kung-fu while wearing full diamond / plate armor. Or the people who are more ripped than a space marine on hGh (and can do Neo-style kung-fu in full plate / diamond armor). Or even just people who can do Neo-style kung-fu. I've seen a two-year-old do a backflip and kick someone in the chin, and I've seen a man decked-out in plate do a two-leg kick jumping up from a crouch. It's ridiculous.

Diamond armor isn't even practical. Diamond may be hard, but it's brittle. Steel armor is almost more desirable because it yields and thus is far less likely to break in half when it gets hit really hard. It just dents. Plus, diamond is fucking expensive as hell. A solid diamond anything would cost thousands of gold, and is probably less reliable than something made of tempered steel. You know how hard it would be to carve armor out of diamond? Or a sword? It wouldn't be just hard, it would be almost impossible. Even if you magically were able to, the end result would be heavy and brittle, like I said. There's also mithril / adamantium, but mithril and adamantium are also heinously expensive, and both have pretty bad drawbacks. Read the lore.

The thing is, there's people with this ridiculous mentality that the point of fighting is to establish superiority. There's also this people with ridiculously strong characters, or self inserts that don't want to see themselves hurt, and thus, don't. But at the same time need to establish themselves as the main character of the story.

It's kind of like in comics, how there is this Superman like guy who seems to get hurt but gets recovered within minutes. That's the reason why people don't really like Superman anymore, and why Batman has gone more popular, one is more humane, more real, even though still quite fantastic, not invincible.

So, may I add a few things?

1) RAGE MODES NEED TO GO. Everyone has one, no one uses it right, it has no explanation. There's always this little idiot who just let him or her on some cases get hurt over and over just to get the rage mode on and thus cause a total bullshit turnover. They're not dramatic, at all, they're pretty stupid, cliched, and just generally annoying. Even though I gotta admit Naria has certain elements into that, atleast the get damaged to trigger something, but that's because her light form allows her to run away, and she can't fight back anyway.

2) BULLSHIT WEAPONS AND ARMOR. They're worse than guns, they're what cause guns to show up. Otherworld armor was for a certain amount of time, commonplace, and it was literally untouchable. Diamond armor and diamond skin was also common for a certain time period.

But generally, armor is usually too strong, which causes swords to be too strong too and which causes guns to fade bows away. It's a thing about balance, really, you want guns to be unnefective? Lower the power of blades and armor.

3) HOWEVER, REMOVING YOUR RIGHT TO NOT BE KILLED IS THE WORST THING TO DO. Come on, you complain about overpowered characters and people who refuse to get injured, yet you want to allow yourself to be brutally murdered by that kinda people? That's the worst approach to take. First deal with the overpowered chars (NAME THEM), then maybe that can be thought out. If that is removed, then people can just gang bang on you and remove your good characters for no reason.

And we don't want that, do we?

4) AND PRP ISN'T ALWAYS HARMFUL. Private roleplay shouldn't be anymore limited as it is. The people RPing have every right to ICly prevent you from coming in, except if it's bullshit like magical barriers. Because honestly, who bashes a door down to get to 2 random people making out and stop them? There's situations where intervening just breaks out the first rule, of common sense. If you're all alone, then geez, make a character that actually fits on the situation. Come on, you can't force people to play with you.

5) PLAY YOUR MISTAKES. That should be a rule, no rollbacking, I've seen people do it, and it screws storylines over. If you want to start over, find a logical IC reason to fix your problem. It adds ALOT to RP, it's alot of more fun, and it makes things turn out on completely unexpected ways, it makes your characters more humane, more credible, and certainly more original. There's barely any situation when playing your mistakes would end up fucking you over.

kamaitama wrote:

4) AND PRP ISN'T ALWAYS HARMFUL. Private roleplay shouldn't be anymore limited as it is. The people RPing have every right to ICly prevent you from coming in, except if it's bullshit like magical barriers. Because honestly, who bashes a door down to get to 2 random people making out and stop them? There's situations where intervening just breaks out the first rule, of common sense. If you're all alone, then geez, make a character that actually fits on the situation. Come on, you can't force people to play with you.

So if I'm all alone and two people are making out behind a locked door, I'm supposed to make a character that would break the door down, barge in, and overpower the two people to avoid getting PKed by them both.

No, PRP isn't always harmful, and sometimes it's required in certain situations. But if it means leaving one or two people isolated with nothing to do, postpone it until it's more convenient. And making a character isn't easy, not for me, anyway. I put a lot of thought into my characters, rather than just cranking them out on a whim.

*sigh* time for my shitty excuse.

Ok here we go, i am not on the server ever because of 2 resons.

1.I dont think i am a good roleplayer, and therefore i feel to shy to actually go on and try.

and 2 that most will think is a lie but....My Gmod is seriously fucked up, after about 30 mins or so everything on my UI will turn into the purple and black boxes, and if i did uninstall all of my gmod stuff and reinstalled it would fix it, but due to my above reson i just dont see the point.

Also due to the fact that i do not do anything except post on the forums im considering just leaving, because i believe that i am just in the way anyway.

You're not in the way, and you're a decent RPer. Just need to get on more.

Steveman12 wrote:

*sigh* time for my shitty excuse.

Ok here we go, i am not on the server ever because of 2 resons.

1.I dont think i am a good roleplayer, and therefore i feel to shy to actually go on and try.

and 2 that most will think is a lie but....My Gmod is seriously fucked up, after about 30 mins or so everything on my UI will turn into the purple and black boxes, and if i did uninstall all of my gmod stuff and reinstalled it would fix it, but due to my above reson i just dont see the point.

Also due to the fact that i do not do anything except post on the forums im considering just leaving, because i believe that i am just in the way anyway.

1. The best way to become a good Role-Player is to RP with people better than you are. You'll learn a lot about writing, RPing, and such. So don't be shy, put yourself out there and give it your best shot. We don't bite.

2. That's a pity. Troubleshoot as much as you can; use google to see if anyone else has had the same problem and figured out a solution, or simply delete your whole Gmod folder so it'll re-extract everything fresh and un-bugged.

Munroe wrote:

kamaitama wrote:

4) AND PRP ISN'T ALWAYS HARMFUL. Private roleplay shouldn't be anymore limited as it is. The people RPing have every right to ICly prevent you from coming in, except if it's bullshit like magical barriers. Because honestly, who bashes a door down to get to 2 random people making out and stop them? There's situations where intervening just breaks out the first rule, of common sense. If you're all alone, then geez, make a character that actually fits on the situation. Come on, you can't force people to play with you.

So if I'm all alone and two people are making out behind a locked door, I'm supposed to make a character that would break the door down, barge in, and overpower the two people to avoid getting PKed by them both.

No, PRP isn't always harmful, and sometimes it's required in certain situations. But if it means leaving one or two people isolated with nothing to do, postpone it until it's more convenient. And making a character isn't easy, not for me, anyway. I put a lot of thought into my characters, rather than just cranking them out on a whim.

No, because they can't PK you without your consent. See how taking PKs from your hands makes the game alot more unfair?

And not only that, but you inmediatly jumped in the conclusion that you A, barge in, and B, use an overpowered character. That's precisely what's entirely wrong with many of the RPs going on. There's SEVERAL ways to intervene into something without using force, at all. There's socializing, there's stealth, there's even random chance.

The thing is, is that many, and I'm not mocking anyone, don't know how to socialize. One does not start a conversation with a girl in the middle of the street just like that, and saying "Hi, you're pretty, let's marry, bye". There's a time and place for things, as stated in the rule number one. It's all about seeing the bigger picture.

And you don't even have to create a character, just use a character that actually would do something like that. Infact, you don't even have to make sense that you're there, to make stuff interesting, you just have to be creative about it.

kamaitama wrote:

No, because they can't PK you without your consent. See how taking PKs from your hands makes the game alot more unfair?

And not only that, but you inmediatly jumped in the conclusion that you A, barge in, and B, use an overpowered character. That's precisely what's entirely wrong with many of the RPs going on. There's SEVERAL ways to intervene into something without using force, at all. There's socializing, there's stealth, there's even random chance.

In both instances I brought up, I A) did not use an overpowered character, and B) was creative about why my character was there. Both times, I got attacked. Since I'd rather not abuse rule 5, if my head got hacked off by some crazy inhabitant flailing a sword at me, I would take the PK. The only part of this that doesn't make sense is the crazy inhabitant flailing the sword, who isn't me, they're someone who wants to keep people out of his / her PRP session by reacting ICly with lethal force to trespassers. Since they can't do anything OOCly, this is the only way. They're exploiting the loophole in the rule.

kamaitama wrote:

And you don't even have to create a character, just use a character that actually would do something like that. Infact, you don't even have to make sense that you're there, to make stuff interesting, you just have to be creative about it.

If I could use any of my pre-existing characters to randomly burst into someone's house, I wouldn't have anything to complain about, would I? I already said none of my characters would have any motive to do that. And I'm not going to do something that makes no sense, that's just bad RP.

Munroe wrote:

kamaitama wrote:

No, because they can't PK you without your consent. See how taking PKs from your hands makes the game alot more unfair?

And not only that, but you inmediatly jumped in the conclusion that you A, barge in, and B, use an overpowered character. That's precisely what's entirely wrong with many of the RPs going on. There's SEVERAL ways to intervene into something without using force, at all. There's socializing, there's stealth, there's even random chance.

In both instances I brought up, I A) did not use an overpowered character, and B) was creative about why my character was there. Both times, I got attacked. Since I'd rather not abuse rule 5, if my head got hacked off by some crazy inhabitant flailing a sword at me, I would take the PK. The only part of this that doesn't make sense is the crazy inhabitant flailing the sword, who isn't me, they're someone who wants to keep people out of his / her PRP session by reacting ICly with lethal force to trespassers. Since they can't do anything OOCly, this is the only way. They're exploiting the loophole in the rule.

kamaitama wrote:

And you don't even have to create a character, just use a character that actually would do something like that. Infact, you don't even have to make sense that you're there, to make stuff interesting, you just have to be creative about it.

If I could use any of my pre-existing characters to randomly burst into someone's house, I wouldn't have anything to complain about, would I? I already said none of my characters would have any motive to do that. And I'm not going to do something that makes no sense, that's just bad RP.

The loophole is there because of my previous reasons. Overpowered, insta kill characters shouldn't exist, and nobody should attack randomly. There's no actual loophole anyway, if you ICly interrupt, they ICly react, you have to ICly react. Because on real life, people just don't stand there while they're being decapitated.

What I don't understand is the following, you use an argument that is recursive and mutually exclusive, you say that you spend alot of time thinking your characters up (Which also seemed an indirect attack against me but whatever), then why the hell would you tolerate someone who has, according to what was previously stated, spend little time thinking their character up, that is only there to be overpowered kill your precious character?

If people can PK you, you'll be pretty much forced to "crank them out on a whim" every single fucking time, because, if already without that specific rule some crazy guy can just decapitate you for opening a door, imagine what it would be when they can do that precise thing out of non specified reasons. Just think about that.

And I'm sorry to have to draw absolutely hypothetical situations, but none of us seem to be giving facts. I'm hearing this thing about two instances about being attacked randomly, then again, I don't hear your creative reason, who was the one who attacked randomly, which non overpowered character was this that you were using, and why was it so important to break in for your roleplay. Because I'm near damn sure that if we start putting that kinda stuff into the table, the interruption, and it's subsequent reaction begins to make alot more sense, if not, just report that person for bad RP, if it was an OOC or bullshit reason.

You however say later then that none of your characters have any reason to just barge in into someone's house, which seems ironical since you mention two interruptions being caused by a character that wasn't "churned out". If you don't have any reason to intervene on anyone's RP, what are you complaining about? What's the big debate here?

I fail to see just one situation on where the actual rule fails at all to prevent private RP. There's no loopholes in there, it's 4 lines long, there's no clauses, no articles, there's just 4 lines that in a nutshell just say "If you want to RP only with a single person, do it on Steam, you can be interrupted at any time as long as it doesn't break rule 1." What's so wrong about that? Where's the misinterpretation, the loophole?

It's not PRP that has caused this recent fall of popularity, it's, as I said before, every single stupid choice we've done from january to today. And we're at time to fix them, so it's time to take initiative and go for what truly needs changing.

What would you consider to be the "stupid choices"?

Alright, I'm just going to take it from the top again.

Example 1: I'm alone, on the server, bored, with nothing to do. There are people PRPing inside of a house. The door is unlocked, and my character sees a trespasser walk in. He goes in as well, and chases out the trespasser. The house's inhabitants draw swords and point them at his neck. At this point, it's either leave or get my throat slit open. I was forced to leave.

Example 2: Once again I find myself without any RP. There' some sort of clusterfuck cyber session going on in a nearby house, and my character hears screaming and yelling. He thinks the house's inhabitants are in danger, and so breaks the locked door down, to get inside. Swords get drawn and aimed at his throat, similarly to example 1. I'm forced to leave.

This sort of thing shouldn't happen. If people are alone, isolated, and bored with no RP, other people ought to at least give them opportunities for RP, even if it means postponing their little private party. I'm not asking people to stop PRPing, just do it when it's more convenient for others and stop being so selfish. And if all you're going to do is RP on SF with a few of your buddies, then there's no point in having a server.

Now, there is a loophole to the PRP rule. Several, actually. The whole rule is written to provide loopholes and justifications. Many of Olden's rules are.

1. If you ICly react violently to someone barging in on your private session, they'll have to leave or be injured / PKed. Invoking rule 5 will only start an argument / flamewar that will probably get both parties banned. People shouldn't have to resort to fighting someone in their house just for RP.

2. If you privately RP on Steam, it's impossible for anyone uninvited to interrupt, and thus other people are literally forced out of participating. They sit alone on the server while everyone else is off in SF RPing with each other.

3. If you have some IC means of blocking the door, like a lock, or a magical barrier, this isn't much different than physing props in front of the doorway. It inhibits access (in some cases, to a building someone else might ICly own and want to use) and isolates you from the rest of the server.

4. If there's no sensible reason for someone's character to interrupt your RP session, that can be considered an exploitation of the rule. The one or two players whose characters have no reason for participating are isolated and have no justification for getting involved. Thus, they are left with nothing to do.

Is it such a huge requirement to always have conversations in obscure locations behind locked doors? What do PRPers do that requires such seclusion? I'll bet only half of the PRP people do is absolutely necessary. Less than half.

Munroe wrote:

Alright, I'm just going to take it from the top again.

Example 1: I'm alone, on the server, bored, with nothing to do. There are people PRPing inside of a house. The door is unlocked, and my character sees a trespasser walk in. He goes in as well, and chases out the trespasser. The house's inhabitants draw swords and point them at his neck. At this point, it's either leave or get my throat slit open. I was forced to leave.

Example 2: Once again I find myself without any RP. There' some sort of clusterfuck cyber session going on in a nearby house, and my character hears screaming and yelling. He thinks the house's inhabitants are in danger, and so breaks the locked door down, to get inside. Swords get drawn and aimed at his throat, similarly to example 1. I'm forced to leave.

This sort of thing shouldn't happen. If people are alone, isolated, and bored with no RP, other people ought to at least give them opportunities for RP, even if it means postponing their little private party. I'm not asking people to stop PRPing, just do it when it's more convenient for others and stop being so selfish. And if all you're going to do is RP on SF with a few of your buddies, then there's no point in having a server.

Now, there is a loophole to the PRP rule. Several, actually. The whole rule is written to provide loopholes and justifications. Many of Olden's rules are.

1. If you ICly react violently to someone barging in on your private session, they'll have to leave or be injured / PKed. Invoking rule 5 will only start an argument / flamewar that will probably get both parties banned. People shouldn't have to resort to fighting someone in their house just for RP.

2. If you privately RP on Steam, it's impossible for anyone uninvited to interrupt, and thus other people are literally forced out of participating. They sit alone on the server while everyone else is off in SF RPing with each other.

3. If you have some IC means of blocking the door, like a lock, or a magical barrier, this isn't much different than physing props in front of the doorway. It inhibits access (in some cases, to a building someone else might ICly own and want to use) and isolates you from the rest of the server.

4. If there's no sensible reason for someone's character to interrupt your RP session, that can be considered an exploitation of the rule. The one or two players whose characters have no reason for participating are isolated and have no justification for getting involved. Thus, they are left with nothing to do.

Is it such a huge requirement to always have conversations in obscure locations behind locked doors? What do PRPers do that requires such seclusion? I'll bet only half of the PRP people do is absolutely necessary. Less than half.

In both cases, the situation could have been solved by RPing. Easily, just talking out the situation. No need to actually leave, and you could have continued that without getting PKed. The oportunity to continue the RP right there was to react either peacefully or aggressively, infact, it's your fault to not react, if they didn't react to your intervention, it would have been against the rule.

No loopholes so far. Or selfishness, atleast one I can percieve.

Now, onto the "loopholes".

1) Yes, they have the right to react as you have the right to intervene. If you're not injured if you're attacked, then it's your own fault for powergaming. Then again as I said there's always ways to get out of that kinda situations. And rule 5 says that you can't be PKed without your concern, if someone is flaming you due to that then just report them. It's only the proposed, which I find erroneous, rule 5 that says that you have to accept the PK even though the reasons behind it are bullshit.

2) If someone's privately roleplaying on Steam Friends, there's absolutely no breaking of the rule, it's tolerable. I mean, it doesn't take a big intelect to figure out how to play on SF and on the server at the same time. Okay, fine, kick people who are idle on the server yet not on SF. The gain? 2 free slots, no extra RP, nothing else. If we're gonna start kicking and banning people from being AFK on the server, then I have one big fucking problem with what is being proposed. The best way to handle people doing that? Add them on SF, tell them to play or get off.

Then again, I'd like to state that is you can't force people to play if they don't want to play, or play what they don't want to play. Doing that is going to cause people to leave the community. The most you can do, is that, kick.

3) It is a hell load different, by a mile away. First of all, one is IC, the other is OOC. There's an unspoken rule, the only rule I agree should be changed, and that is that if someone ICly owns a building that happens to be the same one you got, it's yours once they stop using it. And not only that, but if something's ICly blocked, it means there's an IC way to bypass it. Saying it's like blocking yourself with props is not far from an exageration.

4) If you interrupt for shits and giggles, then yeah, it's against the rule. There's always a very good reason to go into a locked door, it's a game design basic to put something locked or mysterious in order to trigger a player's curiosity and do a set of tasks to unlock or to discover said thing. Take that ICly, you've got your reason. Okay, agreed, it's really awkward to break into someone's house and have a reason for it, but as I said before you can't force people to play with you or to play what you want, so don't even try, call some friends to the server so you can RP.

I find the use of "PRPers" funny, like if it was a set of people who PRP. You can answer that question yourself, can you really enjoy a cup of tea with someone in the middle of the street? Doesn't it feel really awkward to make out with your boyfriend or girlfriend in some corner? I mean hell, there's a reason why doors, why habitable buildings exist. If not, we can all just play in fucking gm_flatgrass and it wouldn't make a difference.


As for the things we've done wrong, I might make another thread for it, so I can have some time to not say it as bluntly as I want to say it.