Fight rp etiquette

Hey there members of Olden, this is a PSA brought to you from the Olden administration. As many of you probably know, hate was a large issue in previous months of Olden. Me and Pat were talking, and from what we’ve looked it, it appears that a lot of that hate stems from previous fights or power struggles between your and someone else’s char. So, in an attempt to help cope with that we’ve decided to put up some fight etiquette that should be common knowledge already. This topic is ongoing, so expect updates and edits.

-This is the first, and by far the most important courtesy of fight rp. Never –EVER- go into a fight with the intension of killing the character you’re fighting (oocly). Chances are, you’ll be disappointed with the outcome, and resent the character (and player) for not being dead at the end of the fight.

-The second courtesy ties into the first. When in a fight, don’t make every attack you do a “death blow” that would kill, or heavily incapacitate the character, because good chances are, if every shot is one of these, the person is going to be doing a lot of dodges and blocks, which often leads people to cries of powergame, despite the fact that you only really leave the person with the option of death, or powergame. Instead, try somewhat vague attacks, that if they do connect, the person being hit can decide where it hits and what level of damage it does. As stated in courtesy one: You’re not fighting to kill the other person oocly, you should NEVER oocly be trying to kill a character. Of course the occasional death blow can be tried, just don’t expect it to connect.

-Trading of blows. Assuming you and your opponent are following the previous two courtesies, you should be doing this without even needing to think about it. In a fight with two people, they’re both probably going to get their fair share of hits in, regardless of the skill. Even the drunkest brawler could lay at least a punch on almost anyone. Remember, you and your opponent should be doing this for fun, or for character development, they should be making mostly non fatal shots, and you can get hit with them, no worries to your health.

-Hate. Yes hate, the emotion that drives us all onwards. Even though that would be a good reason for a ic fight, it should never be a part of the ooc elements. You and your opponent should respect each other because chances are, if you and your opponent hate one another, you will be breaking pretty much every courtesy of fight rp in order to win. Hate causes you to try and sway OOCly every blow into a deathblow, and you will hate them more because they operate on the courtesy of being able to escape a deathblow--Creating a seeming powergame…
THIS WAS A LARGE ISSUE IN THE PREVIOUS OLDEN.

-The luls. Ah yes luls, something you seldom ever see around here anymore, unless it’s mocking someone else in a negative way. True, fight rps are suppose to be serious, but there’s nothing wrong with an occasional lulzy moment. A shot to the groin, getting hurled out a window, whatever works. Remember, you’re here for epic good rp. It doesn’t really matter if your fights are totally realistic, but let’s face it, many Hollywood movies aren’t realistic to an extent, so as long as it’s fun, and is mutually accepted by all participants.

-OOC chat. During a fight, it never hurts to oocly discuss something with your opponent, working under the assumption that you and your opponent respect each other and are just looking for a good time, there should be some level of ooc communication, be it suggesting a move you might want to do, if the other person would be fine with this action, or whatever. Just remember, ooc in a fight can be used for more then squabbling over powergame and bullshit moves.

-Don’t be afraid to get down and dirty. One thing you got to remember, is no matter how high and mighty you might think your character is, he’s never above a good brawl. For example, if you have some end-all killer weapon, have your character drop it, or throw it at your opponent as an attack, this not only makes it easier to avoid the “non stop death blows” but also encourages you to go in there and work on those wrestling skills, which should also allow for more trading of blows, since weapon less combat is far less fatal then armed. Hell, while you’re down there, if you do want a weapon, just reach for whatever’s closest, a chair, bottle…whatever works! Improvise and just think what objects would be readily available in your surrounding.

Oh, and feel free to comment on any of these, for suggestions either forum pm me or message me on steam.
Creds to Pat for helpin.

These seem like good guidelines on paper, but would probably be unrealistic and / or impractical in practice. Face it: some players' characters don't just "seem" like they're powergaming, they are powergaming. A drunk brawler is not going to land a blow on a master swordsman. A character really shouldn't have a super-powerful sword in the first place, but if he does, why the hell wouldn't he use it in a fight, unless he has some self-righteous sense of honor? If he threw his sword, someone could steal it. And you'd have to be pretty damn drunk to choose a chair over a sword. Also, if a player has admin approval, according to the rules they have every right to try and kill a character. Of course, admin approval assumes they have valid IC reasons, and not just OOC ones.

But then there's also this: what if no one has an IC reason to kill a character, but the character in question poses a problem? Say, an OP'd character, or a character whose player powerplays with them, or a character who uses no common sense and is badly RPed? Don't forget that these were also huge problems, and were a major part of what caused all the hate in the first place. I think the admins, or maybe even a neutral third party, should have access to some form of IC "PK tool" - an assassin of some kind capable of killing anyone, with improvised but ICly legitimate reasons for doing so. The use of this "tool" would be dictated by a community vote (unanimous admin votes and 3-5 player votes?) following a PK request in the disputes forum.

Lastly, some of these guidelines seem to force people into adopting a style of RP that may not be their own. That's why I refer to them as "guidelines"; I would really disapprove of these becoming enforced rules of Olden RP. Adding touches of humor, for example. Some people like to RP seriously; that is, they like having serious characters that aren't really humorous. And there's also the examples I listed above.

Good points, but I'd like to state a few things. It's true that there are people that DO powergame, but anything like that should be handled oocly by admins since powergame is breaking the rules, however there have been many cases where people have cried powergame, when it was either dodge or die. I did state that a drunk brawler could get a hit on -almost- anyone, which means it's true a master swordsman would just run them through, but what percentage of the characters in Olden are/should be master swordsmen, I myself think there's more ''master swordsmen'' in Olden then there should be, and I can honnestly say that this time my hands are totally clean, since Thorn usually loses his weapons and is really inept with any sort of bladed weapon to the point of not even using them except on rare occasion. I wasn't really suggesting that they'd lose it on purpose, the whole throwing thing was just an example, but it would suggest that somehow losing it, be it willingly or not couldn't hurt. Also, if your sword is laying say, across the room, you have a chair next to you, and both you and your opponent are unarmed, or armed with very little, I myself would take the chair, if not only to help me get to the sword. Let's bear in mind also that PK requires both admin and player approval, in most cases. Generally if you're going into a fight with a char that's going to be pked, both you and your opponent know this before hand.

We do infact, have the Priory of Skorn, which is pretty much what you said, a HA controlled group that can eliminate anyone considered an issue, this was used on Peter Gutsev and a few others. True it's not used as much as it should be, but it does exist.

Finally I may not have been as clear as I should have been. Certain guidelines, like never go into a situation expecting to kill someone (Unless of course PK approval is there) is a stricter guideline. Others, like the lulz are of course simply suggested and can be taken and left as the reader pleases. None of these are, or ever will be considered rules, much less enforced rules, but they are things a member might want to consider.

I think that a PK should only require admin approval and a vote from community members. PK requests could be made in whatever Disputes section there is, like I said previously. Because saying the player has to approve makes a loophole that can easily be exploited by anyone who wants their character invincible and will stupidly take them into suicidal situations with no common sense or regard for their well-being.

I had forgotten about the Priory, but I think it should only be used with a community vote as well as admin approval, instead of solely resting with the HAs.

Lastly, I know this is a little off-topic, but I'd be interested to know just what you've done with Thorn's character in terms of IC powers, items, and the like.

Munroe wrote:

Lastly, I know this is a little off-topic, but I'd be interested to know just what you've done with Thorn's character in terms of IC powers, items, and the like.

Yeah, I've been wondering that.
Is he a buckethead again?

Munroe wrote:

I think that a PK should only require admin approval and a vote from community members. PK requests could be made in whatever Disputes section there is, like I said previously. Because saying the player has to approve makes a loophole that can easily be exploited by anyone who wants their character invincible and will stupidly take them into suicidal situations with no common sense or regard for their well-being.

I had forgotten about the Priory, but I think it should only be used with a community vote as well as admin approval, instead of solely resting with the HAs.

Lastly, I know this is a little off-topic, but I'd be interested to know just what you've done with Thorn's character in terms of IC powers, items, and the like.

While these are good points, the whole "Does the player need victim approval" has been discussed in detail before and is just a tad offtopic for this thread. In the near future though, we certainly should put up a thread on the discussion of PKs. Last I heard, player approval was required unless it was proven that they did abuse this, and then a PK request would be sent to the admins, who'd consider if the person was abusing this, and if it proved they were, the player concent factor would be removed. If you ask me, the victim approval is a right everyone is entitled to, however if shown the player can't use this right properly, it should be removed.

Also, yeah, Thorn's going oldschool, nothing but Stygian, a collection of normal, non enchanted weapons, possibly a few grenades and or smoke bombs (undecided) and a whole lot of oldschool badass.

Rutabega wrote:

Also, yeah, Thorn's going oldschool, nothing but Stygian, a collection of normal, non enchanted weapons, possibly a few grenades and or smoke bombs (undecided) and a whole lot of oldschool badass.

Stygian is way too powerful, grenades and smoke bombs are non-canon, and "a collection of weapons"? Still smells OP'd to me.

Stygian by your defenition is probably far different from real Stygian. Since later on in the Phobia encounter, Thorn's stygian was always a unique hybreed of part Stygian, part Otherworld metal that made it much more durable than normal Styg. It wasn't true stygian. I'm going back to pure, unaltered stygian. The smoke bombs and explosives are far from being non-canon, since I've had them since Zayl and Thorn's...second(?) major fight, third if you count Zayl as a priest. A collection of weapons, again, is something he's always had. Thorn carries a multitude of armements, (none of which have ever been magic embuned in any way) at the very least he always has a mace, flail and several small knives on his person, plus a few of which I never use, so I could probably eliminate them, but for the full list, please see profile page.

This was basically his gear all the way back when his nickname was "Buckethead", magic was super basic, and hardly ever used and magically enchanted items didn't even really exist yet, even at that time wasn't considered OPed by anyone. Besides, compared to what it once was, not to mension all the magical gear that everyone seems to have now a'days, I can't see how you can even consider it OPed.

Buckethead! My nickname for him lives on. I coined it with love, yet you little whippersnappers use the term so freely. I oughta rip you kids a new one.

Okay, on topic. This.. eh.. I don't like messy topics like this, 'cause you can't tell what works from being put in practice, and what doesn't, because hardly anyone follows these codes of conduct, and those that do are often rewarded, then later punished for having been rewarded in the past. You know it's true if you've ever had any success in Olden at one point, and then been shot down for being OP later on.

I would say that the real problem here, and Munroe brought up the best examples, is that there is no trust between players anymore. Beyond respect, trust is a key factor because you're putting your character in the hands of another player, you're trusting them not to overstep their bounds and powergame. I have seen these codes of conduct function perfectly in other communities. So, once again, what it comes down to is the player base. If you folks can't get along, then you shouldn't even be here. When I read through the above, I thought, 'Wow, this should be fucking obvious.'

That's all I have to say about this conduct stuff. As for trust, well, I'll talk about that elsewhere, more does not need to be said in this topic.

That was the original plan, actually, not allow certain people to come back in order to fix the whole playerbase problem, then draw in a new crowd to replace the people cut from the list, idk if that plan is still on the go or not.

Oh, and don't whine about how it's unfair that we get to decide who can return and who can't. It's our community, and we're doing what it takes to fix it. Who are we to claim it as our community you may ask? Simplest answer in the world....

We never left. None of you that went to MP, or deserted Olden when things were darkest can make this claim. Furthermore, to think that despite leaving you are now entitled to return tell us how to do things is just plain wrong. Sorry if this sounds harsh and or rude, but it's the truth.

Do note that there is a distinction between offering suggestions and "telling us what to do". I'm not in any way implying that anyone at this point has done anything further then voice any opinions they might have, but the above is for any future referance to that situation.

Two things, Ruta:

1. You did leave. This community was dead and empty for over a month until you decided to come back and rebuild it. The reason MP even came into being was because several people wanted problems fixed but nothing got done, which brings me to...

2. We can tell you what's unfair, because we as players don't have to be here. We can go somewhere else. We have every reason to question you and distrust you due to what's gone on in the past. And not one of us has to spend time or energy making contributions to a community we think is unfair.

<PLEASE DO READ ABOVE THIS MOVIE POSTER>

And you sir are the government rutabega.
We are the power you are not.

(Just like posting that *Disappears*)

Though that movie is one of my fav stand alone movies of all time, the fact is these days people are just as afraid of the government as it is of them, thus arises the question, who runs the country in a democracy. Is it the people or the government?

And besides, if history's shown us anything, it's that despite what should happen, usually ends up that the people are afraid of the government.

The people run a democracy, through their government. A government stands only because people allow it to. A President, representatives, etc. are only elected and in their positions because the people say so. If the people don't lift a finger and stop caring, or are too afraid to act, the government takes control.

God damn it, you people never listen.

I mean really guys, Don't make me spell it out.

This is about what we're trying to do, not starting a flame war, The next post I see better be someone putting that Train back on its Tracks.

Now, I agree that those Etiquette rules do make so much sense, that we shouldn't need to read them. However It seems that people on the internet don't have common Sense, so Ruta, I thank you for Posting them. However keeping players out is not going to help us grow. We just have to do better at teaching them and keeping them In Check.

I belive we need to try to fix the players being overpowerd, its always been a problem, "Its always been unfair" and too it has, So many players are so overpowerd just becouse:
A: They are a Admin.
B: They are running a Event.
C: Just made a great app.

If anything, I would rather have a over Powered player do C, there are players that seem important are mostly the hardest to fight without "Loseing" or there armor is simply impossible to even dent, We have all seen that, and I am sure it rather well... Pisses us all off, I belive we should look over the highly over powerd players since it hands down, -IS- unfair for players.

I remember rping a fight and not having a chance of winning, I tried every thing that would scientificly harm the player atleast abit, yet they allways found a way to go "My skin is rock" or "Diomond", I mean it is unfair for alot of players becouse you have to apply for spells unless a admin approves in game, and thats the thing some players have diomond armour or skin and you cant hurt them with a blade, I belive this should be fixed.
Overpowering needs fixing, it doesent give a fair chance.

You've got one thing wrong there, buddy. It's true, Ruta once had his OP'd character, and it was only him as far as admins of the time go (unless you count Psyche), but generally speaking, the majority of OP'd characters belonged to the player base as a whole. Hell, the strongest character in the RP belonged to me, and I'm definitely no admin. There was little distinction between those who earned that strength and those who ass-pulled it, and because everyone was so strong and recklessly abused this strength, often refusing to play weaker characters or even act weaker, fail, mess up during RP, or anything like that. It's given every single one of you a phobia of powerful characters. The complaints of OP are getting repetitive, and they're often coming from the same few people. I, for one, can't really take them seriously anymore.

Edit: And that character you speak of is Kardilaz. I don't have the slightest clue why he, or any of that guy's characters, are still around, much less how they were conceived. There definitely was no earning process, nor any digression on his part for usage of force or power, he was just handed a diamond genesai, and he does whatever he wants with it, so... *shrug* Guess that's one legitimate complaint for a character.

Actually Kain, I think that Kard got his when Stephen Manz was a Mod, and made Veale. And He made Kard his "Cousin" which was total Bullshit.

Yeah, I always wondered about the origins of that character... thanks Matt.

So yeah, proves my point, it should be fixed.

Madcombat wrote:

I belive we need to try to fix the players being overpowerd, its always been a problem, "Its always been unfair" and too it has, So many players are so overpowerd just becouse:
A: They are a Admin.
B: They are running a Event.
C: Just made a great app.

If anything, I would rather have a over Powered player do C, there are players that seem important are mostly the hardest to fight without "Loseing" or there armor is simply impossible to even dent, We have all seen that, and I am sure it rather well... Pisses us all off, I belive we should look over the highly over powerd players since it hands down, -IS- unfair for players.

I remember rping a fight and not having a chance of winning, I tried every thing that would scientificly harm the player atleast abit, yet they allways found a way to go "My skin is rock" or "Diomond", I mean it is unfair for alot of players becouse you have to apply for spells unless a admin approves in game, and thats the thing some players have diomond armour or skin and you cant hurt them with a blade, I belive this should be fixed.
Overpowering needs fixing, it doesent give a fair chance.

Didn't you give your character lich-king powers and completely magic-proof armor?, meh, doesn't matter, i don't care.
I do agree though, how can diamond armor even be possible? It would take A LIFETIME to make, not to mention it would fall apart easily. Yet people like kard pulled them out of his enlarged prostate with no actual RP whatsoever, and gave it to everyone, even to a scrawny little brat like Richard. I really don't see why JUST Teh Soviet was banned, while everyone ran around with impenetrable diamond armor and godlike asspulled powers.

I played a weaker character and you know what I said,
"Holy shit, this is fucken retarded and boring, I can't even do jack shit without hiring a whole bunch of people to kill a single guy. Wow I can't even injure that man with a crossbow. Oh hey I can't even be strong like everyone else is! Oh wow he's taller, He's faster." blah blah blah... Not only that, you CAN'T EVEN GO INTO A PERSONS HOUSE WITHOUT DIEING.

Example A:
"I broke into kains house LULUL HOLY SHi-" - Instant Killed by him because the man was retarded and weaker.
Example B:
"Ahh damn I broke through the window inside the persons house"
- Flames, Cries, and Whines of how they got in the house randomly then proceed with action of where the characters goes to kill them even though it was an accident and was flung in their possibly?


Sooooo even though I had OP'ed character and went through eyes of a weakling, I have to say the whole thing was full of ****

Also Combat weren't you one of the people that didn't know how to rp worth crap of a Vampire, and went all god ass-pulling every single thing you have in the book? 'nuff Said.

Alright, first I'll have to apologize for driving this thread off-topic, and secondly, this thread isn't about OP'd characters. If you want to talk about OP'd characters, make another thread.