The problem with vampires

The introduction of the Concordic Knights has brought a previously mildly distressing issue to the forefront of my mind. This is, of course, as the title states, the problem with vampires. It seems to have come about that every vampire in Surna has patterned himself as -not- a mindless, bloodthirsty murderer that they seem to be in the lore. As such, I don't exactly feel comfortable with the Knights hunting them, because they're meant to be better than the Prophet's corrupt order, meaning they don't smash people's heads because they've got some demonic taint on them.

This seems to be a conflict in the lore. Vampires are stereotypically supposed to be evil, damaged by the sun, killers and predators, ecetera; and yet most IC vampires are not evil, run around in the sun, and are always claiming to not be like the other vampires.

The counter argument comes from experiences during the Sharic Plot arc, with vampires forced into a position where they've either got to go against the general character base, or face Shar's retribution. I've heard numerous complaints of this nature, along with the various other restrictions that come together to essentially place all vampires between a rock and a hard place.

So, should we seek to become more hardline in accordance to the lore? Does the desire for hunger and darkness in a vampire's body overwhelm the senses, or can someone control themselves?



What do

Easy, kill off all the vampires, problem solved.

I believe if people made vampires evil, they probably wouldn't play them unless if they had some huge evil plot that would result in events and such. Otherwise it'd get boring being ignored and doing the same thing over and over again.

Also, there's never really any indications on what time of day it is, so people like me just have them roam around. I figure having the right clothing could protect from it, as I would think actual contact with the sun would damage them, and having clothing that would protect their skin would suffice.

So, should all vampires be evil? No. Should there be evil vampires? Of course. There just needs to be people that will create evil vampires.

When in doubt, shoot the target

It's interesting you picked this up too Pat. I was having this conversation with Mack the other day.

Practically none of the Vampires are evil as the lore dictates.

Now, I wont make a huge argument no one will read, but honestly, I think Vampire lore itself should be changed.

Make the ability to not be evil possible to Vampires.


Having a Vampire hunter character, I had the exact same problem. If they're not being evil vampires, what do.

Can't kill them, they're not doing anything to deserve it.

Can't not kill them, they're ICly killing people all day.

It's just awkward.

New lore please.

Well, all things considered, vampires may face some changes in the future for IC reasons, as well.

That aside, seeing as Mack, the guy that wrote the vampire lore, thinks it should be re-done, I'd like to know if Mack has an idea of what it should be revised to, and if we can be provided with an example chunk of the proposed new lore.

I think a vampire specific to Aeria, as in one more original and also more fitting of the treatment of vampires, would be ore like a sleeper agent that doesn't know they're a sleeper agent. Given the scent of blood, or some other trigger, like the presence of darkness or Shar's command, something clicks and more of their vampirism opens up, and they deal with the consequences of being a vampire, and are more evil and bloodthirsty, etc, but up until then it's both hard to tell and has no noticeable side-effects, except maybe some mild improvements to their attributes. It'd be different for the blessed vampires, of course.

Well, that's just a thought I had.

I tried to be a good vampire and make Scars evil.


I nearly got raped but instead got locked up in jail for serveral OOC and IC months with silver shackles before being released and having Vitamancer Assassins watching me 24/7 and a magic seal on my skull that allows John to track me and call me whenever he wants.

Seems like we've -always- had a problem with Vampires in Olden. I say have some sorta vampire blight that purges vampire chars of their vampireness and then make vampires a creature, not a race.

But I don't want non-vampirism.

I think the lore is fine the way it is. This isn't Twilight, vampires are cursed men. Monsters. They're like werewolves. Or at least, they should be like them. The lore already said they can walk by day, for a few hours, before their blood starts to evaporate inside their veins. The hunger is the part no one seems to RP properly. Vampires need to feed on human blood, period. No other blood will sustain them. It's in the lore.

thorogoodd wrote:

I nearly got raped but instead got locked up in jail for serveral OOC and IC months with silver shackles before being released and having Vitamancer Assassins watching me 24/7 and a magic seal on my skull that allows John to track me and call me whenever he wants.

This is the problem, everyone. You want to know why people aren't evil vampires? It's fucking hard, that's why. And the stakes couldn't be higher - get caught, and die. Or worse, get locked up indefinitely. The fact is, everyone's gotten so powerful, even vampires, an applied-for and "overpowered" race, are weak. The only reason anyone's a vampire anymore is to add a little spice to their character. The evil vampires flee, or turn good, out of fear more than anything. This has to stop.

I propose that we do change the lore - any vampire that stops feeding on human blood loses their powers. Assuming they make it past "withdrawal" - the blood rage. You want to be a super-strong vampire? Drink up.

This isn't the only option. We could explore other ways vampires could be de-powered. Perhaps simply losing devotion to Shar could do the trick. Shar wouldn't give her gifts to people who won't use them to further her will. I just don't think "good vampire" should be an option.

I have tried to RP Lillian going into blood rage.

Granted, I usually made her control herself and slowly kill herself inside and weaken herself, but I suppose I could always RP it differently.

And yeah, I always kinda had the fear of being killed or fucked up hardcore just for having Lillian go nuts on a person. She actually was jailed for a long time after feeding on someone. I'm pretty sure if I had Lillian feed on an actual player (the person Lillian faced jail time for feeding on was just someone that was /it'd), the consequence would be much worse.

Scars gets twitchy without blood, it's a sign of him going into blood rage. Ask John, I think he's seen it the most.

I was pretty sure vampires go into the Hunger no matter what, even if they feed regularly.

And when they do they drink someone completely dry.

Or is jacque lying to me again.

Had to be done

Munroe's proposal has been the best one so far.

I had a thought today, though, that it seems like very few vampires amass tools and power the way other characters do, and don't work in groups or with allies, as far as I can tell.

Would vampires be affected by poison? Would they be limited by heavy weapons, or maybe heavy armor? Certainly, with their boosted attributes, a vampire could make better use of these things than a human, even spells, so it's a wonder why I never see them do it. Is there a lore reason, or has it just never occurred to anyone?

They just aren't team players, or they rely too heavily on their abilities. That plus I don't think the people with vampire chars are able to interact together due to when they're on and let's face it, besides another vampire, who'd want to help a vamp?

Vampires with heavy weapons, armor and/or spells = one man/woman army. I sure as hell hope they're somehow restricted, because they're quite powerful as it is. If a vampire wants to drink from you, you're fucked, end of. To quote Phry, even a vampire slayer who trains daily can only *barely* match a vampire in power. If you're weaker and not coated with a silver armor, you can't really do anything about it.

That said, I suppose it would be only reasonable for them to be strong provided they can first drink from someone. If they go around not drinking from people rather often, their strength and speed would rapidly decay down to a normal man's strength, and only be restored whenever they feed again.

Not sure if that is already in place, I haven't really read the vamphurr lore, but if a vampire goes without feeding for a month and can still beat you with both of their hands tied behind their back, something is obviously wrong.





P.S. Talking from the perspective of weaker characters, at least.

Could be something like oblivion. If they don't feed they can't go in the sunlight and become hideous monsters. Something to that vague nature, anyway.

Vampires can't use magic, I know that's in the lore. As for the weapons and arm, Scars does often take advantage of his speed and strength. Unfortunately a lot of people try to call bullshit on it.

Actually, when vampires do not feed they become stronger. This is why "starving" yourself for a couple of days or even weeks would cause you to become faster, stronger and more "vampire". This would of course require a lot of willpower to stop you from being pushed into the hunger. It's also hard to roleplay a vampire by an extent. People hunt you down, they challenge you and treat you as the common citizen. Vampires are feared for a reason and it should be roleplayed accordingly.

Now, the feeding part. I try to feed on characters when I go on but it's hard with almost EVERYONE carrying silver weapons. A lot of people group up in the inn or outside and they wear full armor. It's not easy to beat an opponent by punching his armor repeatedly until your head is severed from your body. The map is almost always the day version so if you want to do something you have to either:

A) Ignore the fact that it's day.
B) Walk inside every now and then.

A map cycle would be good to at least have night so that people will be more vulnerable. It's hard to feed on someone in broad daylight. You can do it, but it's hard. I've done it once on Benjamin.

Vampires are also THREE times faster then you and three times stronger. Unless you are a superhuman you would have a hard time keeping up. If you are swinging a sword wearing heavy armor you'd be slowed them meaning that it would be even easier to best you in a fight.

A lot of people roleplay their characters as "shiny white knights" who saves the damsel in distress, slays the monster and becomes a hero. With everyone against vampires it becomes even harder to attack during days, to feed at all and to succumb to vampirism.

That starving part makes no sense. Usually one does not become stronger when they're malnourished, vice versa. And yes, obviously people will group up and hunt you down because you're a frigging vampire. People won't just come to you, hug you and say "Yeah, it's okay if you bite me and suck me almost dry, go ahead". Vampires, well. They look like human. They could be treaten as such, UNTIL you reveal yourself. Then people are prone to know sooner or later that you're a vamp.

Silver is quite commonly found on a lot of people, yeah. But silver is used to other things than just annoying vampires. For example, it enhances spellcasting and affects spirits, those two reasons are why for example Mirage is carrying that scythe around.

Map changes, yes, yes, yes. One more time, yes. I'd love to see the night map myself because the obnoxiously bright cyan/teal burns my retinas.

This three times faster and three times stronger is something I'm a little iffy about. Sure, it's part of the lore and you apparently can run up a staircase and slap people across the face before they have the time to clap their hands together. Now, basically, you're fucked as human. No matter what, unless you have a fuckton of silver or abilities that fuck up vampires. Why? They're three times stronger. Hell, if you've got a heavy armor, you have barely no mobility and the vampire could just lift you up or throw a punch at you tip you over. Game over.

Not everyone is really a white knight. People most likely will try to save each other if a monster attacks them. Yeah, it becomes hard, but you picked a vampire yourself. Maybe you should be less blunt about being a vampire and use stealth and seduction instead of leaping onto someone and forcibly biting them? That's a surefire way to blow whatever cover you might've had.

I still think that vampires should become weaker and weaker if they do not feed, bloodrage or not. It might just pop them into a frenzied state, but I don't really think they should become powerhouses that can wreck armies. That's just silly. That kind of power would require some really heavier cons. What do vampires have? Super strength, super speed, super senses, regeneration, not requiring to breathe, resistance to magic, etcetera versus inability to use magic, need to feed on human blood, vulnerability to silver, easily avoided vulnerability to sunlight, dependance on Shar, which I don't know if people RP... I guess that's about it?

I still think vampires are quite silly and a bit to the OP side of life. People will grow stronger over time, yes, a natural phenomenon. Even if no changes are made to the power of vampires, they'll still be strong as hell. If you can't bring someone who was worked long and hard for their powers (likely, while you wrote and app and got everything handed to you, likely) down by yourself - shock, scream, panic - try teamwork with another vampire and pick your fights. Besides, you still have same goals, don't you?

Edit: Whoa, wall of text. How'd it stretch that big? o_O

Vampires:

Yearly Feeders:
Pros:
None.

Cons:
Slowly receeding into thin flesh and bones, until painful death whereas the skin tightens so badly to the weak bones that most, if not all, are fractured and broken.

Monthly Feeders:
Pros:
Less likely to be recognized as a vampire.
Less likely to be hunted.
Can maintain this weakened state of 'disguise' for about 2-3 months at a time.

Cons:
Weaker than the average man.
Sullen, and probably not very well looking.
Goes into fits often.
Fangs do not receed after feeding, causing mouth to be cut/'swollen' often.
Cannot travel long distances at a time. (.5-1 MPH, needing hour of rest between).
Becomes nigh-feral immediately at sight/smell of blood.

Weekly Feeders:
Pros:
Typically, would have a volunteered donor, and thus not hunted often.
Donor ages with the Feeder, so long as they do not feed to often or to little.
Feeder usually becomes stronger, to normal or slightly heightened Vampire strength (same for other skills).
Feeder becomes less aggressive, but still of vampire nature.
Feeders without a Donor are hunted down to the same extent of a criminal of murder.

Cons:
Most Feeders do not build a mutual relationship with their donors, and thusfore lose the mental need to hold back, feeding too mcuh and becoming feral.
A Donors stress can transfer through the blood and to the feeder.
Feeders can go feral immediately if deprived of meal after having the weekly trend for a month or two.

Daily Feeders
Pros:
Skills more heightened than a normal vampire.

Cons:
Much more aggresive than a normal vampire.
Wreaks havoc despite alignment as they feel more powerful.
Goes through constant states of extreme weakness and more-than-average strength, causing to be extremely disoriented, tired without need to sleep, and leads to full-body feeding.

Full-Body Feeders
Pros:
Consuming all of the blood of a person, Feeders becoming extremely feral, mindless, and bloodthirsty. Feeders, compared to modern day, would be giant bodybuilders on three dosages of steroids and ten of adreniline, while also hyped up on crack and a cannibal. Probably not something one would want to stumble across. (Full-body feeders are always daily feeders, they can't really stop themselves after the first.)

Cons:
Eyes are bloodshot and vision is blurred.
Thoughts, if any, are one who to kill.
Equally distorted to a hungover Thorn after a long sunday night.
Can't really comprehend anything and everything makes them pissed off.
Extreme stupidty--with power comes a price. F-B F's tend to do things most would consider suicidal--jumping of buildings, cliffs, ect., to 'test their limits'. Most die this way.
Extremely vulnerable, as they become more and more crazed they become more and more stupid, they pay less attention to those trying to harm them and more to those they want to feed upon.
If a feeder was ever to 'get over' this stage their body would not be able to handle it and, most likely, do the same thing that would happen to a yearly-feeder. Just more disgusting.


hnnngh
supposed to be asleeeep
typing slow and quiet
also;
they should sparkle in sunlight

THESE ARE JUST IDEAS DONT BITCH JUST SUGGEST BECAUSE I AM TIRED AND RUNNING ON 0.00001% ENERGY K
Wreak havoc and do really nothing but.

Markka wrote:

This three times faster and three times stronger is something I'm a little iffy about. Sure, it's part of the lore and you apparently can run up a staircase and slap people across the face before they have the time to clap their hands together. Now, basically, you're fucked as human. No matter what, unless you have a fuckton of silver or abilities that fuck up vampires. Why? They're three times stronger. Hell, if you've got a heavy armor, you have barely no mobility and the vampire could just lift you up or throw a punch at you tip you over. Game over.

This can be done by anyone not wearing heavy armor. And the staircase part is not correct. But they can probably easily traverse an eleven-stepped staircase in under 3 seconds if you take three steps at a time.

Markka wrote:

Not everyone is really a white knight. People most likely will try to save each other if a monster attacks them. Yeah, it becomes hard, but you picked a vampire yourself. Maybe you should be less blunt about being a vampire and use stealth and seduction instead of leaping onto someone and forcibly biting them? That's a surefire way to blow whatever cover you might've had.

Benjamin hasn't really attacked anyone with his fangs in public but people assume he is a vampire all the time somehow. How? I do not know.

Markka wrote:

I still think that vampires should become weaker and weaker if they do not feed, bloodrage or not. It might just pop them into a frenzied state, but I don't really think they should become powerhouses that can wreck armies. That's just silly. That kind of power would require some really heavier cons. What do vampires have? Super strength, super speed, super senses, regeneration, not requiring to breathe, resistance to magic, etcetera versus inability to use magic, need to feed on human blood, vulnerability to silver, easily avoided vulnerability to sunlight, dependance on Shar, which I don't know if people RP... I guess that's about it?

The cons are fair. Stab a vampire with a silver blade, smite him with holy magic, let him "meet the sun". You'll end up with a bloody puddle.

Markka wrote:

I still think vampires are quite silly and a bit to the OP side of life. People will grow stronger over time, yes, a natural phenomenon. Even if no changes are made to the power of vampires, they'll still be strong as hell. If you can't bring someone who was worked long and hard for their powers (likely, while you wrote and app and got everything handed to you, likely) down by yourself - shock, scream, panic - try teamwork with another vampire and pick your fights. Besides, you still have same goals, don't you?

Claiming that we just wrote an apply for our powers is silly. A lot of characters have strengths unmatched by vampires, even from the start. Teamworking with other vampires? You don't want to share your food source with another if you are a vampire.

I'd say do it like the Darren Shan series.

If a vampire refuses to feed or succumb to the thirst, they will eventually snap and kill, completely draining a person dry. They'll also be weak and easily agitated.

If a vampire feeds sporadically, they are likely to accidentally kill but also will not be as strong as if they fed often.

A vampire can feed in small amounts often and remain at full strength.

Graley wrote:

Markka wrote:

This three times faster and three times stronger is something I'm a little iffy about. Sure, it's part of the lore and you apparently can run up a staircase and slap people across the face before they have the time to clap their hands together. Now, basically, you're fucked as human. No matter what, unless you have a fuckton of silver or abilities that fuck up vampires. Why? They're three times stronger. Hell, if you've got a heavy armor, you have barely no mobility and the vampire could just lift you up or throw a punch at you tip you over. Game over.

This can be done by anyone not wearing heavy armor. And the staircase part is not correct. But they can probably easily traverse an eleven-stepped staircase in under 3 seconds if you take three steps at a time.

No, not really, unless you're strong as hell. It's called heavy armor for a reason, and the one wearing it likely isn't immovable, so they could easily fight back against it. Besides, would you like to go close and personal with someone like that? Vampires don't have nothing to fear, unless they're made of silver.
I heard that scenario between you and Fnox just recently. Fnox did mention that Benjamin just ran up and slapped his character in the face without him being able to even react. If Fnox had had three seconds of time, he could've prepared to attempt to counter.

Graley wrote:

Markka wrote:

Not everyone is really a white knight. People most likely will try to save each other if a monster attacks them. Yeah, it becomes hard, but you picked a vampire yourself. Maybe you should be less blunt about being a vampire and use stealth and seduction instead of leaping onto someone and forcibly biting them? That's a surefire way to blow whatever cover you might've had.

Benjamin hasn't really attacked anyone with his fangs in public but people assume he is a vampire all the time somehow. How? I do not know.

Metagamezor? Well, I dunno. Rha has an excuse for that, as she could easily smell a vampire if they're close enough to her. Mirage knows two vampires.

Graley wrote:

Markka wrote:

I still think that vampires should become weaker and weaker if they do not feed, bloodrage or not. It might just pop them into a frenzied state, but I don't really think they should become powerhouses that can wreck armies. That's just silly. That kind of power would require some really heavier cons. What do vampires have? Super strength, super speed, super senses, regeneration, not requiring to breathe, resistance to magic, etcetera versus inability to use magic, need to feed on human blood, vulnerability to silver, easily avoided vulnerability to sunlight, dependance on Shar, which I don't know if people RP... I guess that's about it?

The cons are fair. Stab a vampire with a silver blade, smite him with holy magic, let him "meet the sun". You'll end up with a bloody puddle.

And how many people will actually land that hit with a silver blade? I doubt many will. How many have holy magic? Even fewer, maybe two or three, I think. If someone is that powerful, run the hell away and get some backup.

Graley wrote:

Markka wrote:

I still think vampires are quite silly and a bit to the OP side of life. People will grow stronger over time, yes, a natural phenomenon. Even if no changes are made to the power of vampires, they'll still be strong as hell. If you can't bring someone who was worked long and hard for their powers (likely, while you wrote and app and got everything handed to you, likely) down by yourself - shock, scream, panic - try teamwork with another vampire and pick your fights. Besides, you still have same goals, don't you?

Claiming that we just wrote an apply for our powers is silly. A lot of characters have strengths unmatched by vampires, even from the start. Teamworking with other vampires? You don't want to share your food source with another if you are a vampire.

Yeah, you wrote an app, hopefully. Those characters who have such insane powers, I can't really do much of and I feel your pain about that. Not wanting to teamwork for mutual benefit? Maybe you should.


EDIT:

Markka wrote:

I heard that scenario between you and Fnox just recently. Fnox did mention that Benjamin just ran up and slapped his character in the face without him being able to even react. If Fnox had had three seconds of time, he could've prepared to attempt to counter.

Grale wrote:

15:39 - Graley: I ran up, she tried to stab me.
15:39 - Graley: I gripped her hand.
15:39 - Graley: She gripped my slapping hand.
15:39 - Graley: Or, blocked.
15:39 - Graley: To be exact.
15:39 - Graley: I then tried to slap her again.
15:39 - Graley: That hit, but it didn't do ANY damamge.
15:40 - Graley: Then noddy ran forward and punched me in the nuts.
15:40 - Graley: I say.
15:40 - Graley: I lost.
15:40 - Graley: That fight.

Alright, then. I didn't see anything but the OOC exchange between you, so I don't know how you resolved it.