What about the characters that are only OPd because they've been characters in Aeria for so long? (since like the beginning. (like Zayl has been a character since the beginning, and started out with nearly no IC experience. (or so I'm told.)))
And also... Even in OP character fights, there's still room for others. Any of you remember when ZAKU of all people got to help fight Prophaggot? (not to mention a bunch of angels O_o)
... blagh.... Surprised how a simple kazuth can lead such a group.... Next thing you know I'm going end up leading a band of chaos people to take over... *Grins* Speaking of that... Lets see if I can.. Though that is true... In OP Character fights at least Zaku had a brain and got people to help him kill a person way stronger than him that I must say is smart of him unlike others calling a person OP because your FIGHTING HIM ALONE! Lets see a video shall we?
As you see here.. A band of Marauding Chaos Knights vs a Single Sigmar Priest and a Group of Weary Human Soldiers... In the end WHO DO YOU THINK WOULD WIN! A paladin or a Blood thirster?
What I'm trying get at... ANYONE Can die if you band up to fight one person...
If there was a purge of Olden players, they were just here because of their overpowered-ness, and thus shouldn't really be cared about. And I agree with the fact that people use overpowered too recklessly these days. It's lost its value. If you walked into a bar and started a fight with some guy twice the size of you, you can't start yelling "STOP STOP YOU'RE MUCH BIGGER THAN ME" when he sits on your and eats peanuts off of your face. But I still don't support too much powers in a character.
So. Basically. We need some way to teach people to REALIZE THEIR LIMITS. Yes, there's a guide. But nearly everyone thinks "I'M SUCH A GOOD RPER, I DON'T NEED RULES AND GUIDES!"
Lord-Vorn
Posts : 68 Join date : 2009-04-13 Age : 31 Location : England
No matter what I always check the guides and rules of any community i join just for the reason that I like to know peoples takes on things...But I follow rules and guides to the letter usually.
You thought of putting The guides and stuff in the guest forum?...I bet you they would be read while people waited for their account to be activated.
Munroe DEAR GOD DON'T LOOK IN HIS EYES
Posts : 1392 Join date : 2009-02-24 Location : Fortress of Ultimate Darkness
The problem isn't the players. Actually. If you look at the statistics, most overpowered characters belong to the ADMINS. Which brings us back to the establishment question. The longer you've been around, and the more people like you, the more you can overpower your character. Admins are people too. They make mistakes. Sometimes, they make huger mistakes than the players due to their powers.
While this is true for most admins, some admins make their characters in response to the OP'd characters players have. Admins are required to have power over players and often drive forward plotlines; what power is there if a player has more control over where the canon goes than an admin? If this player becomes like the "main character" as stated by the first post?
Now, I don't want to point fingers here, but a great example I saw of this was with Kain Redwell. His character recently almost destroyed the entire world of Aeria. GeoWulf resorted to the use of an extremely OP'd character to subdue Kain and basically save the world. All of this relates to the "cycle of power", which the next quote effectively sums up.
Mack wrote:
When someone creates a new power for their character, someone counters with an even BETTER power, and then someone counters with an EVEN BETTER power. And so the evil circle begins.
Magic Use: I detest characters who have magical abilities impossible to counter or resist. I also don't like a lot of heavy magic use. I believe spells should be carefully "woven", or simply made less powerful. A sword fighter should have at least a minuscule chance of fighting a powerful mage, rather than getting lit on fire, flung against the wall, and otherwise owned (all of which has happened to my characters and I've seen happen to other people's).
A game that I love for its take on magic is The Witcher. This fantasy RPG puts magic in the background, as a forgotten art very few can use powerfully. The main combat of The Witcher is with conventional weapons, primarily swords, and the brewing of potions (alchemy).
Solution to Overpowered Characters: There really is no easy solution, other than finding some sensible way to eliminate them or remove their powers. Spellplague is a great idea for keeping magic-users down, but that's only temporary. And for all of those huge-demon-with-ninja-skills-and-uber-magic-items characters, something more permanent is required. Perhaps a PK.
The next step is to prevent it from happening again. Crack down on applications, stop being afraid to say no or ask for a better explanation, and regardless of who someone is, treat them the same as everyone else and limit their privileges/powers to safe amounts.
Last edited by Munroe on Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:24 pm; edited 5 times in total
The previous poster makes a point about magic users.
Mages, arcanists, wizards, and the like, need to focus their abilities before casting a spell. They can't just look at a guy and he ignites or explodes. You would need time to channel your magic into said targeted person.
A good example of how magic -should- work is this
Quote :
Some guy: Silly midget! *** Richard Crimson focuses on a rock to his side ** after about a minute more of the random guy insulting the child, calling him a midget... ** ** the rock Richard was focusing on flies from the ground, and knocks the man off the cliff, sending him to injury/death **
That's how magic -should- work. The only way for a person whome only knows magic to win a direct fight, is if said person can focus on listening and responding to the gloater, while focusing on casting a spell.
Basically, the most conveniant way for a magic user to dispatch of someone that's about to kill them (or gloating about how they will kill them), is if there's a conveniantly placed abruption (Idk if that's even a word O_o) in the way of where a spell would push said person.
Example wrote:
** the man stands there, talking about what exactly he's going to do ** ** while the retarded dude is gloating, the magical user who's on his back is focusing a forced fireball ** ** as the man finishes gloating, he lifts his sword in the air, when all of a sudden the fireball his victim was making besides him (the retard didn't notice it cause he was too busy gloating) hits him in the head, with enough force to send him flying a few feet ** ** as the man goes through the air, he runs into a spiked wall/falls into a furnace/bumps into an ogre/etc. ** ** the puny mage then procedes to helping himself up, and walking to a safer place **
Now isn't that -alot- more like how a fight with a magic-user should go? (well, only if the attacker is stupid enough to pick that conveniant of a place to attack him)
Lol... the moment you stop caring about the problem of over-powered characters is the moment you realize consensual and unselfish roleplay does a better job of solving all those problems than any system ever will. People will never stop trying to gain more power. Never. It's in their nature. There's a lot of ways to do it, too, so really, the problem isn't with the character, but the players themselves. If mutual respect is shown, the player behind the supposedly OP'd character will be more willing to let the underdog have his way, perhaps even show them how to school their character.
This is not a structured competition, this is an open-ended game with no other objective but to have fun. So don't think "Oh, it's not fair, I can't beat this fgt, he's too strong, he should be weakened and/or killed off." Think "Hey, buddy, I want to try fighting you character, what would you suggest?" and you might get: "Oh, okay. Well, here's what you want to do..."
Think what you will, but people accused of OP'd characters are no happier about how the accusers deal with their characters than the accusers are.
2 cents.
P.S. During the 'nearly-ended-the-world' incident, yes, Geo stepped in, but I was stopping on my own, anyway. I'm not gonna do something stupid and dickish like that.. hell, I haven't even PK'd anyone. I generally wouldn't want to, anyway, losing characters isn't fun.
One time I made a character that's the definition of "peasent" and with the exact purpose of being PKed.
*makes a totaly normal, vulnerable character* ** the character gets PKed because he was accused of rape by a girl that killed herself, so he gets accused of murder too **
And then I said "HOW BOUT THAT GOD DAMNED BULL-SHIT!!!"
No seriously, I was sick of random people saying that Richard was OPd.
LOOK AT HIM NOW DAMNIT! He can barely defend himself from higher-than-average-strength adults. (if they're lower-than-average-strength then he could just beat the shit out of them, otherwise he would have to distract them while he conjures up a spell to either stop them, or delay them long enough for him to get a guard or someone to protect him)[/semi-offtopic]
Am I the only one that allready obeys the laws of spellweaving? (when it's not battleRP then it's just Passive RP that my char takes a few moments to focus)
One time I made a character that's the definition of "peasent" and with the exact purpose of being PKed.
*makes a totaly normal, vulnerable character* ** the character gets PKed because he was accused of rape by a girl that killed herself, so he gets accused of murder too **
And then I said "HOW BOUT THAT GOD DAMNED BULL-SHIT!!!"
That happens at Arelith AAALLLL the time, believe me.
The difference is how the people deal with it, they take it much better than Aeria would.
Munroe DEAR GOD DON'T LOOK IN HIS EYES
Posts : 1392 Join date : 2009-02-24 Location : Fortress of Ultimate Darkness
Lol... the moment you stop caring about the problem of over-powered characters is the moment you realize consensual and unselfish roleplay does a better job of solving all those problems than any system ever will. People will never stop trying to gain more power. Never. It's in their nature. There's a lot of ways to do it, too, so really, the problem isn't with the character, but the players themselves. If mutual respect is shown, the player behind the supposedly OP'd character will be more willing to let the underdog have his way, perhaps even show them how to school their character.
This is not a structured competition, this is an open-ended game with no other objective but to have fun. So don't think "Oh, it's not fair, I can't beat this fgt, he's too strong, he should be weakened and/or killed off." Think "Hey, buddy, I want to try fighting you character, what would you suggest?" and you might get: "Oh, okay. Well, here's what you want to do..."
Think what you will, but people accused of OP'd characters are no happier about how the accusers deal with their characters than the accusers are.
2 cents.
P.S. During the 'nearly-ended-the-world' incident, yes, Geo stepped in, but I was stopping on my own, anyway. I'm not gonna do something stupid and dickish like that.. hell, I haven't even PK'd anyone. I generally wouldn't want to, anyway, losing characters isn't fun.
Well, as I said, I'm not trying to point fingers. But just because you happen to be trustworthy with a dangerously powerful character doesn't mean everyone else will. You're right, people will never stop trying to gain power. That's exactly why there needs to be limitations. Clear lines drawn that people can't cross, no matter what.
If we don't have lines, then what happens? You get characters who become more powerful than gods, who can abandon any kind of realism in their Role-Play, and you can't counteract it because it's all justified and within the rules. You get a huge problem.
And I'm not going to ask someone for suggestions on how to defeat their character. That's called metagaming, whether it's consensual or not. If the character couldn't conceivably figure it out ("conceivably" meaning you, the player, can figure it out without an explanation. Or hell, the character isn't you, they might not see or understand what you can) then it's not realistic RP. For those of you who say "that's too complicated/unnecessary", we shouldn't have characters that are that tough to figure out how to kill, because if the average player is getting his ass kicked, can't lay a finger on his opponent, and has no clue what to do, then it's safe to assume the opponent is overpowered.
As for you, Kain, while it's true you don't nuke all of Aeria or burn Leyanara to the ground... you could. I'm not saying you're untrustworthy, but frankly, seeing Kain Redwell laughing in the face of supposedly "all-powerful" gods, utterly destroying things until someone tells him to stop (ICly, that is), well, to me, that's a problem. And on that note, I don't see why gods are RPed, either. I don't think they should be as vulnerable or as... interactive as they are now. Maybe toning down OP'd characters will fix that.
/twocents
P.S. Richard: You're the one who chose to make him ten years old. Ten-year-old children can't fight. Period.
Munroe has great points. There's no way to stop people from creating overpowered characters if they get the chance to. As I said before: People come to fantasy-RP to get away from reality and be able to fly around at the speed of light and toss people around like puppets. If you DO limit the powers, alot of people will leave Aeria. Just as Drakeson said.
And another good point by Munroe: Moon, if you don't want Richard to get beat up by adults, you shouldn't have made him a 10-year-old. No 10-year-old can build the same muscles as a WEAK adult. So he couldn't even beat the snot out of adults weaker than average like you said.
And I also think gods should not be played. Which makes me kind of a hypocrit. When I had Shar, I went abit overboard with the control. But I killed her off as soon as I noticed that I was getting out of hand. And since that, I've been opposed to people playing gods at all.
I also have an OP'd character. Some of you might know Marcus the blessed vampire. But even I think he's overpowered, and thus I refuse to fight people with him. I just play him because of his funny personality.
And regarding the part on how admins make their characters to counter out-of-the-line OPs. Even though you're right, Munroe, the admins shouldn't HAVE to be forced to go that far. I mean, where the hell has the Priory of Scorn gone? They were CREATED for JUST that sort of thing. So that admins shouldn't HAVE to create characters to counter the currently overpowered ones.
And the only way to limit powers is to, like Munroe said, treat everyone equally and put limits on what sort of powers can be applied for. And instate that even the highest administrators have to apply for their powers, and be accepted by atleast three other admins. Because if a new player sees an admin playing a super-character that can rip away city-walls in a heartbeat, they'll take after and think that's the norm around here. Admins are supposed to state good examples.
And I also think gods should not be played. Which makes me kind of a hypocrit. When I had Shar, I went abit overboard with the control. But I killed her off as soon as I noticed that I was getting out of hand. And since that, I've been opposed to people playing gods at all.
I play Ao, Bane, and Mystra but I'm very stingy on what I do with them.
Moon, if you don't want Richard to get beat up by adults, you shouldn't have made him a 10-year-old. No 10-year-old can build the same muscles as a WEAK adult. So he couldn't even beat the snot out of adults weaker than average like you said.
You know what, I'm not going to take this bullshit from -anyone-. I'm serious now, you're being -way- too real.
Mack, why the fuck do you -always- try to make things in a -FANTASY RP- more realistic? How would it be a Fantasy RP then? Infact, a while ago, weren't you trying to get rid of magic alltogether? (might've been someone else, Idk)
And by the way, rock gloves + rock magic = strong enough to crush a skull. (YOU GET WHERE I'M AIMING!??!)
Koliup
Posts : 530 Join date : 2009-03-28 Location : Walling myself off from civilization, while re-living my horrible life.
Character sheet Name: Skynet Age: Not important Race: Giant super computer.
Acutally I might have to say seeing that quote... That TEN YEAR OLDS CAN FIGHT *Points out Spartans* Read about them... *Also points at somthing else* Considerably elementary/middle schools the kids knew how to fight... Tae-Kwon-Do, Karate, etc.. etc....
By the way, I've seen a well fit five year old beat up a slightly obese 22 year old guy. (the five year old was a GIRL (then I was beaten up by a 6 year old kid at basketball, about two years ago. (Those fucking kids SUCK)))
Even if it's fantasy RP, there's still the LAWS OF PHYSICS. Otherwise you'd be floating around without gravity, and you would be able to jump again mid-air and other shit like that.
So, unless you want to think up new physics laws for Aeria, I suggest you sit down, shut the hell up, and realize that unless Richard is a vampire or otherwise magically enchanted, he can't beat up an adult.
- Drakeson. Even though kids today go to some sort of martial arts, there aren't many dojos around Aeria, I think. And I doubt most of them would take in 10-year-olds. And Spartans were BRED for fighting. They had a sole purpose in life, and that was to fight. And they were trained from their first steps. I don't recall Richard being trained in the art of war.
And Moon, just because you get beaten up by six-year-olds, doesn't really mean anyone else would.
And about the rock magic. Weren't you the one to say that magicians should be physically WEAKER than others a few posts ago? And you also said something about CONCENTRATING for a few seconds before being able to cast a spell.
And lastly: I've never wanted to remove magic from Aeria. Only time I've ever been against magic in RP was back on Desertia, where Drak introduced it and made a bullshit PK on one of my characters.
Lord-Vorn
Posts : 68 Join date : 2009-04-13 Age : 31 Location : England
You know what, I'm not going to take this bullshit from -anyone-. I'm serious now, you're being -way- too real.
Mack, why the fuck do you -always- try to make things in a -FANTASY RP- more realistic? How would it be a Fantasy RP then? Infact, a while ago, weren't you trying to get rid of magic alltogether? (might've been someone else, Idk)
And by the way, rock gloves + rock magic = strong enough to crush a skull. (YOU GET WHERE I'M AIMING!??!)
Way too real? You sound like you're just pissy cause you can't play as a widdle kiddy. Seriously, the child chars again?
And hell yes I agree with Mack here, because he's doing what we need to do, realise that just because it's fantasy, that doesn't mean that simple facts of life (ie, the laws of physics, realism) won't exist. I'm not saying we can't have magic or anything like that, I'm just saying that you can't bend the word 'fantasy' to tailor your needs of RPing a kid.
I doubt that your widdle-kiddie character could beat up -any- adult. Like Mack said, you'd have to be trained like a Spartan. Even if you have nice little magic gloves I doubt you'd possess the skills to use them OR be at least skilled enough to lift more than a few pebbles at the most. Oh, and wait for the spellplague.
And even if you were avid at this type of magic, you'd have to nerf your other stats, such as your strength. One who trains in magic cannot have the time to train their muscles. Your character would probably be the one that gets put in the trash in school, the one who sits in the corner, as he can't fight nor talk without feeling uneasy. He'd lack social skills due to the extensive amount of concentration that the magic will have to use up. And where is the fun in playing a ten-year old character anyway?
And whats this about our widdle kiddy hero trying to beat up adults using your hands. There -IS- such thing as the laws of physics in Aeria, or else we'd be (like Mack said,) scout jumping through the air and taking a stroll on the clouds after a good little flight I like to call 'bullshit'.
Please accept that your character would be odd in one way or another and from what i've gathered from the previous pages, that you are roleplaying a liddle widdle kiddy.
Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:36 pm
